In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim talks with Bond labor and employment attorney Alyson Mathews. Alyson discusses how her interest in first amendment work led her to her current labor and employment practice, and she explains how she utilizes the New York State Bar Association and other professional organizations to develop connections.
In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim talks with Bond labor and employment attorney Alyson Mathews. Alyson discusses how her interest in first amendment work led her to her current labor and employment practice, and she explains how she utilizes the New York State Bar Association and other professional organizations to develop connections.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bon, channick and King. I'm your host, kim Wolf Price. Today we're talking with Allison Matthews, a member in our Garden City, long Island office. Allison practices part of our Labor Department in a variety of areas, including workplace compliance, collective bargaining and school law. Hello, allison, thanks for joining us on the podcast today. Thanks for having me All right.
Speaker 1:So as lawyers, we often talk in insider terms. As we talk about Labor and Employment Law, today, I hope we can explain some of the terms and maybe even acronyms, while also discussing the type of matters you handle as a labor attorney. And, if it's okay with you, I'd also like to talk about your service in bar associations and professional groups, because I think that says a lot about your commitment to the practice. So does that sound like a plan? It does All right, great. Well, before we go too far into legal issues and what's ahead, it's a bit of a tradition on the podcast to start out the conversation with a little bit about our guest's background. So if you wouldn't mind, would you tell us a little bit about you? But you want to talk about law school, undergrad, where you grew up, family, whatever you think might be appropriate.
Speaker 2:So I am not a native New Yorker. I'm not even a native Long Islander. I grew up in Montgomery County, maryland, which is just north of Washington DC. I was about 20, 25 miles north of DC, so I had a lot of experience going in and out of the Capitol and I thought I would actually end up in that area and possibly working in Washington. And I received my admission letter to Boston College and it completely changed everything.
Speaker 2:So I decided to fly up there I think we may have flown in and out in the same day and it was one of those things where, when I stepped on the campus and started taking the tour, I knew that's where I wanted to go and I had already put a deposit on a college somewhere else and I completely squashed those plans and ended up going to Boston College. I didn't want to stay in Boston permanently, so I know I wanted to go to a city when I came to law school. So I looked in New York and I also looked in Washington DC and ultimately I had the same experience when I looked at Brooklyn Law School, when I went into one of the rooms and the tour, I just had that feeling that this is for me. So I kind of went from city to city to city and then eventually landed in Long Island.
Speaker 1:That's great. So is it Delmarva? Is that what they call that Delaware Maryland Virginia area now?
Speaker 2:I have never heard that before, but I am very defensive that it is Mid-Atlantic and not the South. There is a difference and I don't know exactly what it is, but now that I've driven up and down the coast, when you go from Massachusetts, eventually it becomes a little bit less New England and a little bit more Mid-Atlantic. And from my perspective, once you leave Northern Virginia is when it starts to feel Southern Mason-Dixon line be damned. It's all about how you fit the region and what it feels like I think that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1:I've never really heard of Delmarva. And then we were just down in the area, we were in Baltimore, and there were all these things about the Delmarva on the news when they were talking about the weather and I was like, is that the Delaware, maryland, virginia area, I guess? So I've never heard that before. Yeah, I haven't lived there for a while, so we're glad to Boston College for bringing you up to the northeast and away from the Mid-Atlantic a little bit up into the northeast and then to New York. And so you said you went to Brooklyn Law School. When you were at Brooklyn Law School, did you plan on practicing labor to employment law?
Speaker 2:No, I think I remember taking a look at the course descriptions and toying with the idea of taking labor and employment law and then something about it just turned me off. I was taking a lot of First Amendment classes. I completely fell into doing labor and employment. It just sort of happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that sometimes the law students don't realize that that is kind of what happens. Law school doesn't necessarily train you to be just one kind of lawyer. It teaches you the basic skills and then you can become any kind of lawyer from there.
Speaker 2:Right and I was looking. I really had this interest in First Amendment and when I was looking for a law firm job, I was just looking for a firm that had that as one of their practice areas. That not to date myself. But back then you would go on Martindale Huddle and kind of plug in a region and plug in a practice area and you get this big list and that's what I went off of.
Speaker 2:And I ended up working at a law firm that was doing a lot of school law. I knew I wasn't going to stay there and I actually thought I was going to go back to the DC area. So I actually looked to expand what I was doing and figure out what. So school law was very localized. But was there something else that in terms of the workload that was coming my way, that if I wanted to pick it up and change to a different state, what would that be? And that was labor and employment, because there's a whole federal body of law that's labor and employment issues. So I looked for more opportunities in that field, solely for the purpose of maybe one day leaving New York and I'm still here. So, but it all worked out.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, and you mentioned that your first job, so you didn't start with a bond. Can you tell us a little bit about your career to get to bond and when you joined us?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I first started at Ingram and Smith and since I had zero connections to New York, I just looked for ways to connect with people. So I sent my resume directly to someone who went to Boston College and I think that helped get the foot in the door, because I don't know what else of my resume would have been there that would have stood out to all the resumes that they were receiving. And I started there and slowly going into that, I realized, you know, I didn't want to do a lot of the some of the school stuff. That was more the general counsel stuff, which I know bond does, of course, but I don't, and it wasn't generally my interest. I was also doing a lot of special education work and I wanted to branch out and at the time it was all for that goal of potentially relocating. That never came to fruition, but I was looking to do that and the next step was to make another connection in that labor and employment field and that's how I'm kind of segueing here, but that's how I got involved in the Bar Association is that I had to figure out a way to expand the small, pretty much non-existent network that I had and look for those connections within New York and find a way for me to expand, because I wasn't going to stand out if I just dumped my resume at a law firm in Maryland or DC no, it's, no one was going to want to hire someone based off of that.
Speaker 2:So I got in something I think in the mail about the New York State Bar Association young lawyers section and the people at Ingram, and we're very supportive of bar association activities. So I went to that meeting and I think I spoke to someone in advance about opportunities there and their structure is set up so that every there's one person on their executive committee. That is a liaison to all of the subject matter sections. So they needed someone for labor and employment. So I threw my hat into the ring. No one else was interested in it, so I got it and that's how I sort of started branching out. So when it came time for me to really start to move on, get a little bit of experience and move on from the law firm that I was at, I reached out to the person who was the first section chair that I connected with and asked for help and that helped turned into come and work for me and that was where I spent most of my career.
Speaker 1:Is that someone who later became a bar president?
Speaker 2:I'm not a bar president, no, no but. But you know, former Labor and Employment Law section chair, former municipal section chair. So experience within the labor and employment field and also within the bar association for 15 years.
Speaker 1:And that firm is also very active in the bar association and we'll get back a little bit talking about that and your bar association work generally. But it's clear that you understand how connections matter right To building your career and building your network, because I know that folks that we usually know from the bar association will call each other and say, hey, I have this issue, you deal with it, I don't. It helps expand business, expand knowledge. So all that relationship building in the end helps clients, right? I?
Speaker 2:think one of the early events that I went to as a young lawyer. Someone said people hire people. Yeah, and it was about making that personal connection that when you were looking for someone in the field, your mind was naturally going to go to a person that you met. That does that versus just kind of looking on the internet and finding someone in the field.
Speaker 2:So that stuck out to me and I've tried to make that part of just my development. You can expand your network and have you know. You know a lot of people. It doesn't mean that automatically all that business is coming your way, but at some point maybe someone has an issue that they need help with, or they know someone else and it all goes back to hey, I want that person that I met.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fantastic. What's interesting, that you talk about the people aspect of it, because that's what labor and employment is, a lot of ways as well, right, something may have gone wrong with people, and the first thing, if you know, I mentioned workplace compliance. Sometimes that means there's discipline or something went wrong. And even in collective bargaining, which we'll talk about, how the people interact is how you move it forward, right, and so those people skills are really important in this practice area.
Speaker 2:It's crucial in this practice area. Your ability to get along with people, to work together and your trust factor matters. You can't be successful as a labor and employment lawyer without those things, and the scorched earth approach often doesn't work, especially when you're working with unions, because at some point in time you are going to need to partner with that attorney or that representative and if you scorched the earth, it's not going to happen and you, you know you've burned your bridge Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. So well, let's talk about what a couple of those things that I just said mean. So maybe we'll start with workplace compliance. I think it means a lot of different things. There's a lot of aspects to it, but can you talk a little bit about your work in workplace compliance?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I see it as making sure you have the right policies and practices in place, making sure that people know what they are and making sure that everyone is following them. It's really that basic.
Speaker 1:And then if people aren't, then that's a disciplinary action, right?
Speaker 2:People aren't, then there's a disciplinary action. So that's part of it. And because we do labor and employment, we do have a lot of really interesting stories that go along with what we have to do as labor and employment attorneys. The ones where it's a workplace role and someone's not following it is pretty standard. But sometimes you get these wacky disciplinary situations that just kind of surprise you. Yeah, because it's people right, and people do it Because it's people. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So what type of clients are you typically advising and working with? Is there certain sectors that you work with more?
Speaker 2:The majority of the clients that I work with are in public sector and that my experience is very broad when it comes to public sector. So it's everything from county, a city, a town, a village, a library, a fire district, a school district, you name it. I've engaged with them and work with them in labor and employment. And then on the private sector side, there's no one specific industry. I'm usually asked to help private employers with the compliance issues, the handbooks, the one-off disciplinary matters, things like that, Sometimes managing a difficult employee so someone can avoid being sued down the road that often comes up. But there's no one industry that I feel like I'm limited to. But within the private sector it's pretty broad.
Speaker 1:Well, it seems like that makes sense because the private sector doesn't have the specialized additional rules or laws from the municipalities or the school districts or those things, and if you're working with one industry, a lot of the same issues may come up in the industry.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have a client who once said that if you're in private sector, you need a lot to tell you what not to do, and if you're in public sector, you need a lot to tell you what you can do.
Speaker 1:That sounds about right? Oh, my goodness, yes. And so, just for the folks listening, this is sort of everything from the required New York state sexual harassment training. That's a compliance issue, right, employers of a certain size have to comply with that. And there's also more specific issues based on industry. As you just said, if you're a public sector, there could be more compliance issues, or there definitely are right.
Speaker 2:Definitely more. But also you find best practices too. So, for example, there are New York state public employers that have to have a workplace violence policy in place and you see that sort of cross lines over into private sector because of all the things that have happened in the workplace and some of these very violent situations where employers on the private sector side are putting those policies in place also. So now it's sort of it's a best practice there too to make sure they have them in place and everyone's being saved and properly trained to help avoid some of those situations.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. So the private sector can kind of learn a little bit sometimes from what the public sector is requiring. Sure, and we talk a lot here at Bond About Handbooks and so and I confess I'm not sure many employees read the handbook necessarily, but handbook violations are another issue that sometimes comes up, right, is that also part of this, like compliance discipline? Does the handbook tell the employee the things they have to do in this agreement?
Speaker 2:So I kind of split it into two different things, because some handbooks will have a list of dues and don'ts and or codes of conduct, so to speak, but you can never capture everything that's disallowed or that you're supposed to be doing in a handbook, nor do you want your handbook to create that implication. So it's usually a generic list, but with all the disclaimers that it's not exhaustive, it's not all complete. There are other things here, because there are some things that you just expect from employees as a matter of common sense and there are other things that maybe they weren't aware of, which they didn't. All that's part of compliance. You want to properly manage your employees.
Speaker 2:If they aren't doing those common sense things and the things that aren't so common sense.
Speaker 2:You want to train them and make sure they understand it and make sure they understand their obligation, because you do have situations where you end up in a disciplinary hearing and the last thing you want to have happen when you're the attorney is for someone to say I had no idea that that rule was out there, because we don't have any proof, we don't have paperwork to show they've gotten it or a signature, we don't have training charts to show, the sign-in sheets to show that they were there, and then you have a hearing officer looking at you and saying well, yeah, this isn't really a commonplace type thing that someone would automatically know. This is really incumbent on you as the employer to train that person, and then it's potentially a waste of resources. So when I'm getting prepared for that type of a hearing, I'm looking for that documentation, and if it's not there and I don't have anything else to show that this is something the employee should know about, then I have to warn the client that this is going to become an issue in a disciplinary hearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think a lot of times with workplace compliance, people only think of that. It's what you should do, what you shouldn't do, the rules you have to follow, but it's also about retention, letting people know the rules of the game, protecting your workforce. There's other important business issues, and you mentioned safety earlier. This helps create a better environment if people know the rules Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the ones that I seek come up in their reference most frequently would be the harassment policies, so that we have a framework for the employees. They understand what's not allowed and they understand that they don't just have to accept it. There's a mechanism in place, there's a person that they can go to. If they don't want to go to that person, there's someone else that they can go to, so that we can fix that situation and make the workplace better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense, because sometimes, if something happens, especially with something like sexual harassment, people have not for a long time known what to do, and laying that out makes it, I'm sure, better for the employer as well, because then people know who to go to. They have it set up and there's a plan in place.
Speaker 2:Correct, and it changes too. If you go back to when sexual harassment was first a thing, the cases that would now automatically be this was sexual harassment. Back then they weren't Right. So it's interesting how much was tolerated and how much even as lawyers we've all learned over the years and how the law has adapted to address. You know what we find acceptable and what we don't find acceptable anymore, and I'm sure down the road someone will look back on some of the things that we're doing now and be horrified, but we're trying to do the best we can with. You know where we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Do you like those investigations and those compliance hearings?
Speaker 2:I love investigation because it's a little bit of a detective work and I like trying to figure out what's happening and making sure we get this right side of the story and figuring out the proper outcome going forward. So that's a little bit different because you're not really acting as an attorney or acting more as a fact finder. So it lets you kind of step away from that legal role and take on more of that investigatory detective type work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds great. Well, it's totally different when we get to collective bargaining. Right, yes, people skills very important, but it's a term we've used, but can you tell us what is collective bargaining?
Speaker 2:So collective bargaining people, when they hear that phrase, they usually understand what it means once you throw in the word union. So it's a group of employees who are organized together and represented by a union and they work as a team, as a group, as a collective unit, so to speak, to set their terms and conditions of employment by working with the employer and having conversations and negotiating over what those terms and conditions are going to be.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned this, I think, a little bit earlier, but what types of businesses or industries sectors? Is this your municipal work primarily?
Speaker 2:For me it's primarily municipal work, so it's the schools, which you can have anything from administrators, teachers, those pedagogical employees, then you have custodians, clerical workers, food service workers I'm sure I'm going to leave someone out transportation workers, that runs.
Speaker 2:There's a huge, broad amount of employees in different groups that are in a school district. And then you get to other types of municipalities where you have the first responder type comes in, so you get the police officers, the firefighters, public safety dispatchers and what they do, and then you have again clerical and you have custodial and you have all those types of staff members and the way that they approach bargaining and the way that you approach them in bargaining is a little bit different and you have to be sensitive to their perspectives and what they're trying to accomplish and I try and make a good connection with their union representative and whoever is in the union leadership position, with the employees at that employer, whoever is the shop steward or the president, whatever terminology they use, and let them know that even though we're on the opposite side of the table, we're all working towards the same goal, which is a contract at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Right, because they want to work and the municipality or school district wants them working. So that's that the end goal. It would seem like for some of these municipalities and school districts, because there are so many different types of unions involved, they might be in some type of collective bargaining all the time.
Speaker 2:All the time. All the time, I try and help clients stagger the contracts, because my phrase that I've said is you're always going to be negotiating with someone, but you don't want to always be negotiating with everyone. Yes, you want that staggered amount. It's a huge drain on resources when you have them all up at once. Yes, rall issues when they're all up at once and it's just a lot because we have the people who are sitting at the table with us. There's a lot of work that goes into getting ready for negotiations and work that happens in between bargaining sessions and for them to be doing that for multiple units at once. They're also trying to do their regular job and to grab these into it. The more you add to the plate, the fuller it gets and maybe it doesn't get done and then the union gets upset with you because we're not prioritizing their contract. It's better to stagger things.
Speaker 1:Yes, it makes tremendous sense Because, like you said, so much goes into even preparing to start that staggering. These gives everybody, like the people who have to do the prep and the other folks and the attorneys and even the union reps. There's more full attention if they're staggered and everyone can have probably better conversations.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and some of the union reps they represent more than one unit at that. A lot for them also.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be absolutely so. How did you get involved at this work? Was this your firm before bond or earlier in your career?
Speaker 2:I was a brand new attorney and I think I was tying along and my first firm. I know I was sitting in on some teacher negotiations but I was really the note taker and Helping prep them between the sessions and get that partner ready for the next session. But it was glorified note taking. But that's how you learn you sit there and you absorb it all and Understand what the process is. And that continued when I went to my next firm because I was still I was only two years out, so I was a new attorney and that partner. I basically just shadowed him everywhere. So if it was a grievance arbitration, if it was a case before her business negotiations, I'd say 90% of the time, wherever he was, I was and I just learned. I said it was all osmosis.
Speaker 3:Kind of.
Speaker 2:But you have to also remember to ask questions If something doesn't make sense to you and to have that relationship with the person you're working for, because it's not always fun To ask a question and you're not sure if you're gonna sound like you're an idiot for asking it. But you have to figure that out and make sure you get asked those tough questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you have to ask those questions of like you know the person who's mentoring you, so that you're not asking them in the actual Situation for the client.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, it's a much harder thing to learn when to not say anything, then when to say something, so that that comes into play, especially in collective bargaining, and you don't you definitely don't want to ask questions. That might not be the appropriate setting when you're sitting at the bargaining table.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Well, I was gonna say that it must really allow for strong relationships with clients, a real, in a Different way than perhaps other practice areas, because it's a long and intense process sometimes.
Speaker 2:It is, and we all, you know, kind of collectively call ourselves a team. Yeah, so we all send emails and say, hi, team, and here's what we need to do for the next session. So it creates a different type of relationship with those particular individuals who are sitting at the bargaining table and those that you deal with on Workplace matters solely, and I think also there's there is a lot of downtime in negotiations. So if you're dealing with something and then each side wants to caucus and talk about something, but the union needs more time than you do, you end up talking about your personal lives and what's going on and you get to Know people on a completely different level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like it's a really great experience. You know, difficult at times, a lot of work, long hours, all of those things, but a good way to build those relationships definitely, all right. So I'm gonna then transition, I guess, back to the relationships with our association work and other things. So you talked a bit about it and you talked about someone else being chair of the New York State bars labor and employment law section, but you were a former chair of the labor and employment law section as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started off as the liaison between the labor and employment law section and the young lawyers section and I tried to just make myself present. There wasn't always that much to do is the liaison, but I, you know, I went to the meetings. I went to there. They have two big meetings every year the annual one in New York City and the fall one. We could rotate around the state and I made sure to be there and at some point along the way One of the incoming chairs Wanted me to transition out of that liaison role and to be a co-chair of one of the committees, and it was the membership committee.
Speaker 2:So I accepted that, left the liaison position behind and then that became one of the co-chairs of the CLE committee, which is basically the almost the de facto face of the section, because you're putting together all of the events that in the big events, like a lot of what those sections are doing is putting on CLE, and it's a tremendous amount of work. It comes in waves because there's in the timing of the two big meetings that they have and that led after that to being nominated to be chair. That's great, and so that's a one year term. It's a one year term and mine went 2019 to 2020.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, I think after the annual meeting, you're kind of in the downhill slope of your term and for me, the annual meetings in January and mid-March everything's kind of shutting down anyway. So it was really pivoting and seeing what we could do and luckily, the person who succeeded me was fantastic at taking advantage of those Zoom type meetings that we could do and had a lot of them and really made sure that people could still stay connected, so he was an excellent choice in that regard. That's great. That's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were all obviously everywhere, but the state bar. I remember that January meeting. We were all there in person and then that was the last time we saw each other for a while.
Speaker 2:That's right. And oh, you know, recently there's still been a lot of people who still want to be remote and don't want to go to those meetings.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's true, even the January meeting wasn't nearly as well attended. No, in 2023 three years later.
Speaker 2:No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you also were involved in a school law group and planned a conference this year in New York. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Sure. So when I was at my prior law firm, they asked me to be kind of pushed myself into getting involved with the New York State Association of School Attorneys. We had another partner at the office who was cycling out of that role and we wanted to make sure we had a place there. So I threw my hat into the ring and I think it was the only time when more than one person wanted the job. I guess there was a slight competition there, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's a pretty long-term commitment. You start out as a director I think you're a director, for I want to save four years and then you go through the officer positions. So I'm in the tail end of that. I'm first vice president now and one of my tasks as first vice president, as with every first vice president, is to put on their big conference for the year, which is at the Sagamores at the annual school conference. So I had a fantastic co-chair. We really wanted to embrace the fun and make it something that stood out and that people could remember, and I think we accomplished that. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:So the Sagamore is a resort up in Lake George and I think you guys did a great job and I say that as someone who attended, not just saying that from Lake but saying that. But I was there and everyone was very energized and engaged and even the last sessions on the last day had attendees which anyone who's ever attended a conference knows is a rare thing.
Speaker 2:And that one's a hard one because it's not close to anybody, so everyone wants to get on the road and get going. So for having everyone sit there and actually continue to be engaged was great, and you were great on that last day.
Speaker 2:It was a very successful segment as well. But it's a fun conference. There's always a theme and they take the theme and kind of wrap it into each presentation. I think last year's was Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, so all the panels had songs that were affiliated with the theme of it. So Andrew was he was the one that said I just want to have fun. We just got to have fun and I came up with a game show theme and it just sort of evolved from there. It was great.
Speaker 1:I mean everyone was very engaged and I thought it was a great conference. Always a testament when people are still there the last day, especially when you have to drive, I think no less than two hours right, like no one's coming from less than two hours away.
Speaker 2:Close. This is probably Albany, but I don't think there's a tremendous amount of people that are coming up from Albany.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's a long haul, all right. Well, you talked a little bit about it, but why is being active in these groups important to you in your career?
Speaker 2:So, for me it's still about making the connections and the resources too. So, like I said, I'm starting to build it, but I didn't have a huge network going in. So even when I'm talking to people here and they were like, oh yeah, I know that name, I went to school with their brother or whatever, I'm never going to have that here. So I had to look for other ways to build it from the ground up. So the Bar Association was a great way to do that.
Speaker 2:I think it benefited me also when I came over here to bond, because I remember someone saying, when they had the membership meeting and they were voting on whether to admit me as a new partner, we went to lunch on my first day. They said so and so was. That was talking about you and this person and that person. How do you know them? They're all the way up in Syracuse and it was all by virtue of the Bar Association. There was another attorney that came out of the woodwork who was retired. That was like I can't believe we landed you and I didn't think it was even you. I'm so glad you're here and it was nice because it was a brand new experience, which is always hard. I didn't necessarily, I didn't go looking to leave my last law firm, so it was a risk for me to jump in and really try something new. But then it was like I had all these friends who were already here because I had known them from the Bar Association.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. I'll say that the media past chair of the Women in Law section, cheryl Geller, immediately said to me oh my goodness, allison is joining your firm. That's fantastic. Yeah, you have to reach out to her. You're going to love her. I love Cheryl, cheryl's the best. So all those connections really do make a difference. I think, right, there is the best advice you could give to new graduates or new law students If you're not from the area or you don't have the connections, you have to find ways to make them and build that network.
Speaker 2:Right, I think. Also, don't make any assumptions about who's going to be a good referral source, because you never know where it's going to come from and it could be completely unexpected. So don't discount any relationship at all.
Speaker 1:That's excellent advice, all right. So here's my last question for you Rough estimate, how many lacrosse tournaments for kids have you been to this summer?
Speaker 2:This summer I went to five. All right, that is a lot.
Speaker 1:Allison.
Speaker 2:I think I'm trying to think three and, yeah, five.
Speaker 1:It would have been six, but one got a potential drain and got right out, because one was when we were together at the Seymour Bank.
Speaker 2:I missed that one because I had my obligation to the conference. And then my husband and I split ways for two tournaments. One was one place and I was the other, and then we were able to go to a couple at the end together. And then we have four more this fall.
Speaker 1:All right, so a lot of hotel points for you, allison, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I keep forgetting to use them because you have to select to do it when you're making the reservation. I usually just drive right in and make the reservation one day. They do the same thing my kids are all done with this, we'll go on a nice vacation. That's perfect. There you go.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thanks so much for joining us, allison. It's always great to connect with you and talk to you. I'm truly happy you joined Bond and that you asked me to be part of the School Law Conference and, of course, that you said yes to joining the Women in Law Section Executive Committee. So thank you for taking on that new role and joining us. I hope you'll come back to the podcast soon, definitely.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBondbskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
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