With the OCI process in full swing, this week's episode of Legally Bond is a repost of Kim's conversation with Bond litigation attorney Liza Magley. Liza talks about her summer coordinator role on the firm's Recruitment Committee and provides tips on how law students can prepare for the on-campus interview process.
Legally Bond will be back with brand new episodes on Monday, September 11.
With the OCI process in full swing, this week's episode of Legally Bond is a repost of Kim's conversation with Bond litigation attorney Liza Magley. Liza talks about her summer coordinator role on the firm's Recruitment Committee and provides tips on how law students can prepare for the on-campus interview process.
Legally Bond will be back with brand new episodes on Monday, September 11.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond Shannigan King. I'm your host, kim Wolfe Price. On today's episode we'll be talking with Liza Megley, a litigation associate in our Syracuse office. Hey, liza, welcome to the podcast. Hey, kim, thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you today. This is kind of a special edition of the podcast for us. We're going to be talking about issues of importance to many law students law firm interviews, summer programs. We might throw in some advice for new attorneys. The reason for that, of course, is it's getting to be that time of year for OCI or on-campus interview process or off-campus depending on how your school does it where a certain group of law students across the US focus their energies on getting that 2L summer job and having spent more than a decade as an administrator and a teacher at a law school, I know they're all stressed and that's what comes with this process. So I asked Liza if she would join us today because she's the summer coordinator for the Fond Summer Law Clerk Program and it was way more recently in law school as a student than I was, so she can speak to these issues. So, liza, are you game for talking about interviewing in summer programs today. Absolutely, let's do it. All right, sounds great, I guess. Before we get into that, though, it would be really helpful if you wouldn't mind telling our listeners a little bit about you. Take a few minutes to talk about your background, where you went to law school and undergrad, sure, so.
Speaker 2:I went to law school at Georgetown down in Washington DC. I went to undergrad at Xavier University, which is a college in Cincinnati, Ohio. So I went double Jesuit for my higher education process. Then I moved back here I'm originally from Syracuse and boomeranged back after law school.
Speaker 1:Sounds very good, so how did you get to bond?
Speaker 2:Well, I know we're talking about OCI today, but I did not come to bond through that process At Georgetown. It's called EIW or Early Interview Week, and I participated in that but it was mostly New York City and Washington DC law firms. So, knowing I wanted to move back, I kind of had to take matters into my own hand, start calling law firms. I knew bond by reputation from growing up and I was lucky enough to see that the father of a girl I played basketball with in high school was then the chair of the litigation department. So I nervously dialed his number and I'm sure my voice was shaking because I was very stressed. But he gave me the 411 and guided me through the process for what I needed to do.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic, and I may ask you some more questions on that as well, because I do know that for firms like ours or others in what people might call secondary markets which across the 90 corridor here in New York state, people would call our offices but that's another way that you can get to the firm. So I think that you have some sage wisdom there you can impart as well. So we'll get back to that. Sounds good, don't?
Speaker 2:count your chickens though.
Speaker 1:Well, so I just I do have a question. You're a new homeowner, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I am. Yes, I'm learning. It's a bittersweet honor to be a new homeowner. But yes, first time home buyer, very exciting.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's exciting because you wrote out the pandemic in an apartment, right.
Speaker 2:I did, yeah, two bedroom apartment with both of my sisters until for three months, so we all were working at the same time. I even one day I was on a conference call for work and someone all of a sudden said is there Harry Potter on in the background? And I had to say, well, my sister teaches fifth grade and she's reading it to her students. So it was definitely an exciting but dense experience having all three people in the two bedroom apartment.
Speaker 1:I'm sure. And then I remember from Zoom there was something that lovingly became referred to as the mega desk.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yeah. We took picnic tables from my parents, propped them up in my bedroom, which became our group office, and it was mega desk was an understatement. I had to climb over it to get into my bed, so very adaptable and, yes, one of the few times you take your work home with you literally because it's right next to your bed.
Speaker 1:Literally, I could just roll over and start working right now, exactly Well, thanks. Thanks for that background and letting our listeners know a little bit about you. Here at Bond, you're an attorney in the litigation department, so litigation isn't like TV. What types of cases do you work on as a business litigator here at Bond?
Speaker 2:You know, unfortunately, being a business litigator is not like TV. We don't have as many cool suits and you're not screaming I object as frequently as you see on television, but it is still actually really fun. Usually, do relate it to a TV show Jeopardy. Being a business litigator means that you get to learn about so many different things because no matter what problem your client presents to you, you have to understand the facts and the law. So I can switch from learning about how a trade secret works for a car to the very next day focusing on a not-for-profit and their fiduciary duties. So it's actually a lot of fun because you get to learn a lot and bounce from thing to thing. So it does consist of some in-court trial work and motion argument, but then there's also a lot of research, writing and discovery. So taking depositions, going through tons and tons of emails, feeling very intrusive on people you'll probably never meet, but it's a little bit of everything, which is nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:The basis is the rules of civil procedure and then the client's business or the type of matter changes every time probably Exactly, and the more you know about it, the easier it is not just to make your legal arguments, but also to bond with the client. So it's fun in that way too. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:Very good, all right. So right now, all over the country there are two L's and someone L's who are in summer programs, particularly for firms of like our size 270 lawyers or above law firms. Of course, I do want to say this of course there are students in summer positions at small firms and traditional chambers and prosecutors and defenders offices and legal services agencies, but our wheelhouse is law firms. So we're going to talk about this from the law firm perspective and these interviews kind of tend to be some of the first that happen in the process. With the early interview week at schools like yours or on campus, off campus or review week at other law schools, that start to happen pretty quickly. I actually got an email I'm not quite sure why it came to me, but that's okay. I got an email that said that there was one school in the Midwest and it was actually starting right after 4th July which is a blink from the minute.
Speaker 2:That's too early.
Speaker 1:It's like it's too early. That's why I think our timing is good here. Before we talk specifics, can you tell us a little bit about the roles you hold at the firm, in particular, sitting on the recruiting committee and this role of some of the coordinators that I talked about?
Speaker 2:So I'm on two committees at the firm the pro bono committee and the recruitment committee. I've been on the recruitment committee for about two years now and the recruitment committee is exactly what it sounds like. We recruit potential summer law clerks or associates or other laterals in different levels to come join our law firm. It's actually a really fun committee at bond because it's one of the few committees that associates can serve on as well as members, the idea being the associates will be working with these folks that we're hiring for far longer than some of our membership will be. So it's nice to have a good mix and you get a good opportunity to work with people from other offices and hear about different office cultures. So our Rochester office has a different culture than our Syracuse office. So it's a very good mix. And we're responsible for vetting folks through that process, working on on-campus interviews, having people come in who cold call about a job or see a posting, and then within the recruitment committee. This year I'm a summer coordinator. So I've been a department coordinator for several years, which basically means I'm the liaison between the summer law clerks and the litigation department, but this year I'm the liaison between the summer law clerks and the firm, for lack of a better way to explain it. I think that's pretty accurate. Yeah, so we just plan the summer process. I work with Kim, I work with the chair of our recruitment committee, Colin Leonard, and with the great Ann Perone, who's just the biggest pro we have in our human resources group, and she just she, really runs the show. We're all just here to lend a helping hand, For sure we're just like the figureheads.
Speaker 1:She's really the yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, she's the heart behind the operation. Oh yeah, absolutely. So we basically plan the summer, make sure people are going through the rotation, getting good work, going to different events to meet other attorneys, planning some fun things too. You know, it doesn't have to be all work. So, yeah, I think that's just kind of the gist of it.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's great, and I think that they got their their Bond Go cards today, which is something that you came up with, which I think is awesome, because they are a cohort and they should get to know each other. Can you just explain?
Speaker 2:that briefly. So I am a very corny adult and I like fun games like this and getting to know people. So I changed Bingo into Bond Go and I just basically looked at everyone's resumes and made a Bingo board with different squares. So, for example, I've worked in a prosecutor's office or I speak a second language, and the idea being that they'll all get to know each other. You know, take a 15 minute coffee break with someone from the Buffalo office, if you're in the Albany office, and see which of their squares you can cover up. Basically, and whoever gets Bingo first I'm not sure what they're going to win, don't tell them yet, but there at least will be the pride of a job well done and having gotten to know your summer cohort, even better.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great idea. I mean, I started at a big firm in New York City and there were I don't remember how many of us 40, some thing of us but some of my best friends are still from that summer class. So I think this is another great way, because this year we have 10 clerks in several different offices all over from the Midwest through to Garden City and Buffalo, albany, rochester, syracuse so it's a great way to get them together. So, thank you, hopefully they have fun doing it too. Yeah, I think they will. So one of the things that we're working on as a firm is to continue to focus on becoming more inclusive and making sure we're considering a diverse talent for the process. So you and I get to work together often, which is an opportunity I'm really grateful for. So it's nice to get this chance to talk to you about some of the stuff you do. All right, so before we get too deep into the summer law clerk experience and some tips on succeeding, let's start with this on-campus interviews or early interview week idea, and which is where many, but certainly not all, summer law clerks or summer associates at bigger firms get their two L job From the recruiting committee's perspective. So how important is this process to finding next summer's class?
Speaker 2:It's definitely our primary way of recruiting summer law clerks. I think that far more than half of our summer law clerks this year came through some sort of screening process with the school, though it was a bit weirder last year because of the pandemic. So this year is a unique class. But when I summered up on, I was one of six summers and two of us did not come through the OCI process, but the other four did. So it's definitely the more common way of coming and getting to know the firm. It's also a really good way for students to get to know different firms because it's a quick process. Oci.
Speaker 3:You know, you're screening.
Speaker 2:You're kind of just walking through places as quickly as you can. So it's a good opportunity for both law firms and for students to kind of get a feel for each other right away and see what's worth pursuing.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great point. It's also a way for law students to kind of try on a few different law firms. Exactly, yeah, get a sense of culture. That's a great, great point. It starts with submitting a resume, typically through your law school, if you're going through one of these official processes and for the firms that recruit there and from there the firm selects candidates for an initial interview. So you'll submit a bunch electronically if your school does these programs, and then you'll get selected or bids to do interviews with a certain number of law firms. So let's say, a candidate's resume gets selected for that screening interview. What can she expect in that screening interview? What's it like, the screening?
Speaker 2:interview is quick, so it's definitely a good idea to make sure, as a law student, that you know exactly which firm you're going into, because it can be a busy day and that's an easy mistake to make and be prepared with their questions, because you're going to meet two people from the law firm and they're just going to start asking you questions about yourself and expect you to have some questions about them. But it's definitely a quick process so you don't want to slow burn. When you're going in, you're making your first impression and going for it right away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair. You don't want to have to warm up. Maybe interview with a friend first. Get that warm up guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, drink some coffee, have some tea, whatever you need to do to wake yourself up.
Speaker 1:Right, and this year for some firms they could be doing a bit of a hybrid. They could still be doing some online and then some in-person as well for those, so they'll have to adapt to that a little bit too right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point. Last year we had some in-person, some virtual. Sometimes one person was in the room with someone and the other person was virtual. So definitely this last year of being in school in a pandemic will serve the students well. Having to have grown accustomed to the different ways you're learning it's definitely better than when I went through it At Georgetown. We go through giant hotel rooms and sit in hotel rooms with people throughout the day, which is so strange in your suit like sitting.
Speaker 1:That's what I did too, so weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's bizarre. So whatever we're doing now, I think is better than what the hotel scenario provides, I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree that makes sense. But you're right, the way they've been learning through law school so far, having their 1L, your B, online will help them and they have to sort of take some confidence in the fact that they've been doing this. They've been cold called on Zoom so they can interview if they have to. They'll be fine, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Cold calling. I automatically had an adverse reaction as soon as you said it.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I didn't mean to See, it doesn't go away. It doesn't go away, it doesn't. No one wants to be cold called. So the screening interview goes well and somebody gets a callback. So how does that go, or what does a callback interview sort of look or feel like in a traditional sense, if someone comes to the office, a callback interview is actually a much different process than the screening interview because it's not just one interview, it's several interviews throughout the day with different attorneys.
Speaker 2:So typically a candidate will come in and they'll have a schedule and they'll meet with a couple attorneys at a time throughout the day in their offices or in a conference room, with a little break in between for lunch, where they'll go with typically two younger associates or newer associates so that they can ask maybe some of the questions that are more specific to what's it like when you first start sort of thing, and then you might have another interview after that, depending on the schedule of the day, and then say your goodbyes, write your thank you notes and cross your fingers.
Speaker 1:And you have to be prepared to answer the same question three or four times, right?
Speaker 2:Oh yes. And to ask the same question three or four times one of the biggest opportunity myths that I see students do, and it's a totally normal thing to do. You ask your question. When they say, do you have any questions for me, you ask it. They give the answer. You don't ask it in the second interview because you already got the answer. Sometimes it's just to show that you did some research on the law firm, so you can ask the question four different times. It's no big deal.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and four different lawyers will give you, in essence, the same answer, but in four different ways, maybe. So it might be worth sort of seeing how that goes Exactly. That's great advice, though to say, oh, I already asked the first interviewer, that isn't the right way to handle it. It's definitely to ask the question again. Engage with this person if it were the first interview of the day. Yes, which is tiring.
Speaker 2:I get that. Oh for sure You'll want to take a nap at the end of your call back interview day, so plan on being a little more tired that day.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You're on your aid game the whole time, over and over with new people.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, your cheeks will be a little sore from over smiling. Your hands will be clammy from shaking hands if that's what we're doing. But by the time people are coming into the office and, yeah, you'll definitely want to get out of the suit immediately too, because it will just feel like a straight jacket.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's like get this thing off, get me in something comfortable and I'm not going to talk for an hour. Exactly, I remember that feeling, even from many decades ago. I do so, liza. Throughout this whole process, like whether it's the initial interview or the call backs, are there certain things, maybe even small things, that people can do to kind of try to help themselves stand out.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think research and asking questions are key, showing that you know the law firm. It's the same as when you go on a date with someone or you're meeting a new friend People like to talk about themselves. So if you can get people talking about themselves, they're going to leave your interview feeling really good about you and they might not have even asked you two questions about yourself, but they felt like it was great. So I definitely recommend doing your research in advance. In some cases you get the names of the people you'll be interviewing with for the callback interview in advance. I recommend looking at their firm bio, seeing if there's anything interesting you can connect with them on, because, again, it shows you're doing the research. It shows you're interested. It's not just oh, I want to be at a big law firm because I want to do sophisticated work, but that's okay, that's a fine answer, but we hope that that's the case automatically. We want to know something that's setting you apart, and I also think writing a thing you know is. Your parents or your aunts or your uncles probably said it to you when you got birthday gifts as a kid. It's no less annoying, but no more impactful. Now it makes a huge difference and I notice it when candidates do it and I make a note on their evaluation sheet. Oh, they wrote a thank you note, took the time to say dear Liza, thanks for the chat. It doesn't have to be very intense, but it's nice. It shows that you're taking the extra step and that you're committed and it kind of gives an indication that you're the kind of person who's going to do follow-ups when you're working, which is what we want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, and you're right. It doesn't have to be long, like three sentences. You could make one of them a little bit about that conversation with Liza particularly. That's helpful, but that's all the better, absolutely. But also you're right with the research. You don't know, Maybe that person went to Xavier too. You went to the same undergrad, you were part of the same club in law school. You have something in common. Or they wrote a paper or a client alert on something that's really interesting to you. It happens to be the same as your note that you wrote in law school. So all those things could bring a big connection, don't you?
Speaker 2:think, the more connections you can make, the better, I think it's important, it's nerve-wracking, absolutely.
Speaker 1:We all know that, and that's the other thing. I think that is helpful to tell people. The people interviewing you know you're nervous. It's okay, do you think?
Speaker 2:that's a fair statement, Definitely. And the people who like being on the recruitment committee are the people who were also nervous, remember the process and want to help the new folks along. So there's never going to be a personality that you meet probably really at any law firm who's doing the recruiting process, who's going to be thinking, oh, their palms are so sweaty, how gross. They're going to be thinking like, oh, I remember my hands were just dripping after I left the interview, so that's definitely not anything to be worried about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think all firms sort of ask people. The chair or the chair of the firm asks people to join because of their personalities and because of their welcoming nature, and so everyone should take, I hope, a little bit of solace in that before they jump into the new firm.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Every little bit counts. It does, it really does. So we are talking about OCI or early interview week, but you did, as you mentioned, come to the firm as a direct application. So that is at least a third of our class, I think. Pretty typically, and for other firms in our markets like Buffalo, rochester, syracuse, albany and then other markets across the country that are considered maybe secondary markets like Kansas City or other places, that would be how students could apply to law firms if that firm doesn't come on campus to their school to participate in one of these programs. If a student applies that way, do you recommend anything in particular about how they connect with the firm? You said you reached out to high school friends dead. Are there other ways they could connect with, like alum?
Speaker 2:I think, like what we just said about interviewing, any connection you can make will help. Of course most law firms will have a contact on their website that you can kind of cold call say are you accepting applications? Definitely do that. But if you could add speaking with someone who went to the same law school as you or the same undergrad, or a family friend, that can really go a long way in helping you make sure you're navigating the process appropriately and you kind of get a little advocate for yourself going through the process who wants to be your cheerleader. So even if they're not on the recruitment committee, they're going to talk to folks on recruitment. They're going to want to call a reference, tell people how great you are, even if they don't know you. Just going to the same school oh, they went there and they were in this club, so was I can be a good connection. And if you don't have a connection somewhere, don't fret. Still apply and maybe ask around and have someone help you make a connection In these secondary markets. The good thing about them is it's a smaller pond, so you might know someone who knows someone that they can help make the connection for you. Grab a coffee, have an informational interview. So don't worry, if there are connections, you can still figure out ways to make them.
Speaker 1:Now I think that's an excellent point. You definitely can still find ways to make them, and you said there are contexts sometimes on the website, and even though people may be intimidated, lawyers tend to like to want to help law students. So ask for that informational interview of coffee and make that first connection. If that's, I guess that's great.
Speaker 2:And then you're building your professional network even if you don't go to that firm. So it's a plus in that way too.
Speaker 1:No, that is a really excellent point. If you end up in that town, maybe you don't work at that firm. You still met that person. You'll see them at bar association events and it's always a good connection to have. Yes, so I want to also mention that there are great affinity job fairs, including lavender law for LGBTQ plus community and Nibalsa Northeast Black Law Students Association, as well as others that provide additional opportunities for candidates from traditionally underrepresented communities, and now the Association of Legal Career Professionals is collecting fellowship and other opportunities. So that's another resource, as well as law school career services offices. You really should talk to your law school career services office and alumni and friends in law school, but alumni, your career services office and a lot of other resources out there. So if you're trying to search for a market that you're not in, which I used to hear a lot like so hard it's a far away market there are resources out there and I think that it's worth taking that chance. Make sure you do it All right. So the interviews are over and the offer is received and accepted. So some folks are going to wait then, of course, till next summer to do this, but some people are in these jobs right now. But what should you do next sort of after you for those who are waiting until next summer? What should they be doing next after they have the offer?
Speaker 2:So just what you were doing your first year keep working hard. If you have the chance to take an interesting course or two, I recommend doing that. You know you'll take your bar courses, but one way to get good grades easily is to take classes you're interested in and engaged with, and it gives you things to talk about when you're summering. Everybody knows you're going to take evidence, but I took congressional investigations, for example, and I loved that class and it gave me an opportunity to kind of have like a little cocktail party story under my belt to talk about that people would be interested in. So do that. And also make sure that if you're on journal, if you're doing mock trial, whatever the case may be, enjoy doing those things, because that's going to help you come the summer as well, maybe practicing your oral advocacy, practicing your researching, that sort of thing and then also just do some fun things too. In law school it can feel like such a bubble, but law firms are looking for whole people, not just law students who are becoming lawyers. So even from a practical perspective like whether you volunteer, whether you play guitar, whether you play a sport, whatever the case may be do some things that make you a more interesting person, not just a more interesting lawyer.
Speaker 1:I think that's excellent advice. I mean, we're in a profession that has a lot of stress and there's issues of well-being around, so making sure that you bring your whole self to the job and that you keep track of that other part of yourself, not just the view that can write briefs or negotiate deals, is really important.
Speaker 2:And that'll help in law school too. It makes things a little bit easier to handle.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I should understand that 3L will be better. It'll be a treat. It'll be a treat.
Speaker 2:By comparison.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely no, but great advice, like there has to be this sense that you're still you, and that's another thing. I think. That point back to the interview process too. You do still have to be, obviously you're on your best behavior, but you have to bring a little bit of view to those interviews as well, because if you're trying to be somebody else, it's not going to translate well, definitely not, and you want to make sure yourself is fitting with the firm.
Speaker 2:It's not just about getting a job. It is the place you're going to spend a third of your day, five days a week, and you want to make sure that it's a good fit for you. And if you're pretending to be someone you're not, you're not going to really get a good vibe on whether there is a fit.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's an excellent point and that's another thing I think people kind of forget in the process that it's not just about them picking you, it's what you picking them Exactly. So you do have to stay in this, even though it doesn't feel like it, when you're sitting in those interviews.
Speaker 2:It really doesn't, but you do and it's important because bond's a place where we want to hire people for the long, the long haul. So you can't think of it as just a summer. Like the summer is you seeing how you fit in the firm and whether the firm fits for you. So it's a lot more than that. It's not just going to be the summer, it could be longer. So it's important to make sure you're thinking that way and valuing yourself in the process.
Speaker 1:That's great advice. So if we were speaking to folks who are summering right now and then people for next year could use this as well. Is there advice sort of on getting summer right? Yes, there is.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of ways to do it right, so that's a plus. That is a plus. The things I always say are what law firms are looking for is reliability. They want to be able to rely on their associates to do the work, do it well and do it on time. So what you want to show during your summer is that you're reliable, and that doesn't mean that you're someone who can do it all really fast or do it without any help. It might even mean the opposite. You want to make sure you're asking questions so that you can be giving them the best possible work product, not getting the research assignment wrong. And you want to be the person who, if you're overloaded and can't get something done on time, you talk to someone a week before that happens, not the day you told them you'd get it to them, because it's all those things that help show that you have an understanding of the importance of everyone's time and that you want to be someone who's a value add, not requiring the extra steps. So as long as, at the end of the day, you're thinking I'm being reliable, people know they can count on me to get things done, then you're golden.
Speaker 1:I think that's really important advice. It's not about being perfect, it's not about making sure that you all have the most assignments, get the most done, but it's making sure that people want to come back to you Because, as we say over and over again, in all law firms for associates, the first clients are the members or partners you work for, so you want them to come back and give you more work. So if you get in that habit over your summer of asking questions because if the answer were that obvious, the person giving the assignment would already know the answer to the question Right. So make sure that you're asking questions and that you're following up, but that you're meeting deadlines. You're not just meeting but, as you said, perhaps getting things in a little bit early to give yourself that wiggle room, especially during the summer. Right, Because this is all new building in some extra time and then when you wrap up the summer, everything's turned in or you've followed up with everyone and they know where everything stands. Is that something that sometimes people have to work on a little bit?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's not necessarily the most natural thing for law students or lawyers to want to admit they don't know something. So remembering that the whole point of you doing the work means someone else doesn't know can be really helpful. It's easy to go to your office, sit down, hammer it all out on your own, but you might end up going down the wrong path. So just getting comfortable asking the questions and following up it's a practice, but once you start doing it it does make the job easier for everyone involved. And I remember hearing a horror story when I was a summer about a summer law clerk apparently many years before my time at Bond who just left their last day with a bunch of outstanding assignments and just didn't follow up with anyone and didn't say oh, I can't get this to you. I think I did an assignment like over the weekend after my last day because I was so scared because of that story. So you won't be the first person to miss a deadline or miss an assignment. That's okay, you do it once, it's fine. People make mistakes. But don't leave a pile on your desk when you leave and just hope that someone, I guess, comes and figures it out Exactly.
Speaker 1:I think that's the point where people come to us as lawyers to help figure things out, so make sure that you're providing everyone those resources. Like here's the memo I was doing, I got two thirds of the way done. I wasn't able to do this last piece so that they know how to pass it on to someone else Exactly. That's perfect. So I think one of the other issues is many people had never been in a law firm before, or don't know lawyers or have them in their families, so that first day of work can be really sort of daunting like walking in. Do you have any advice on calming nerves for those first?
Speaker 2:days. I would first and foremost say Even if someone is from a family of lawyers, everyone's nervous that first day. So keep that in mind and the same thing we talked about with interviews the people you'll be dealing with that day know you're nervous. Our summer law clerks this summer. I walked into the room and they all looked like a deer in headlights because that's how it feels You're getting so much information. I remember my first day. I didn't even know we had to bill our hours and someone asked about it and I remember thinking what the heck is a billable hour? I just hadn't even thought about it. I grew up around no lawyers, so it wasn't a term I'd heard. I was nervous. One girl was wearing stockings with her suit and I wasn't. You're paying attention to all those little things and none of it's going to matter. You're going to forget everything you learn on the first day and that's fine. You're going to feel nervous, but there's going to be people who help you. So at Bond, for example, we have department coordinators who are newer associates who just love the opportunity to help everybody get into a routine, because they were in that boat for some people just two years ago. So there's always going to be help. Your first day you're going to feel totally out of step and out of place, regardless of where you're coming from. And that helps because you're not there thinking oh so-and-so knows how to bill and is wearing stockings. Oh my gosh, I did everything wrong. How did I even get here? How did I get here? I've survived, I've been fine. I figured out bold things.
Speaker 1:I do think that that's something to remember too. Like you got there, you're supposed to be there. Yes, keep going, it's going to be okay, most definitely. So before we stop talking about this, I think we have to talk about the summer events, because all firms kind of do summer events because they're fun and they want people to get to know each other, they want the class to bond but and they're social often, but they're work events right?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a great question, especially because it's a work event where you're also going to be there with people who have known each other for 20 years, so they might be behaving in a way that is more familiar and friendly simply because they've been buddies for two decades and you're watching that. It could be easy to forget that you're still kind of in interview mode, but the good thing about that is that hopefully your colleagues and your summer will feel the same way and younger associates will be there and you can kind of like watch them take their lead. But keep in mind that you're still kind of. You're the person everyone's going to remember at the end of the night. So have your stories at hand, feel comfortable introducing yourself to people, but then also make sure you're not over imbibing. If that's your choice at the event, or if you're a very messy person, maybe don't pick up the taco that's covered in salsa and spill it all over yourself. I've been there, so like, trust me, I've spilled many a food item on myself in an event and I'm fine. But just those are the little things to keep in mind.
Speaker 1:No, you're absolutely right. When I was in New York, at the Farm in New York City, there was always the legend of the summer, of some story of someone, and I think the way you framed it it really does it well. Like these folks, they've worked together for two decades. They may be, you know, members together, they may be on committees together, work cases, bend the trial done, negotiation together, so they will be more familiar with each other. You have to still keep that level of familiarity. That is someone they met six weeks ago.
Speaker 2:So and then maybe in 20 years, hopefully, you'll be that person joking around with your buddy and watching another summer, feel totally nervous and deer in headlights.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, all right. Well, I think you're right. It's a work event. It's supposed to help you get to know people. You can ask questions that aren't work related, but you can ask work questions. But you're right. Okay, if you are someone who does drink alcohol, you got to keep it to the low side, and if you're not, it's really okay as well. Grab your club soda, your diet Coke, whatever it is, and just go ahead and have conversations with people. You should not feel put off either way. Absolutely All right. So I really appreciate this. I think it's been a lot of great advice. I'm going to ask you for one more bit what's your new homeowner advice for anyone out there?
Speaker 2:My new homeowner advice is weirdly very similar to my new associate advice Don't be afraid to ask for help. There are so many things in a house that you know it in the same orifice way before you've moved in. But then you're living in the house and you're disposed all bursts and you need to figure out how to fix it. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and call your dad and have him come over because you just can't figure it out by yourself. So that's okay.
Speaker 1:Weirdly, similar advice and I will say, as someone who doesn't yet have adult children, but, on their way, probably actually made his day when you called him out. So it's okay, people want to be your mentors, whether they're in homeowner ship or here at law firms. So you're asking the questions because that's the only way to get on the right track and get the answers. For sure, all right, liza. Well, it was hard for me to stay on target because I could talk to you about a million topics, but I'm really glad that you joined us today and I think that there's a lot of people out there who will appreciate your advice. So thanks so much. No, thanks.
Speaker 2:Nita Happy to do it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you are listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone from the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBondcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded.
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