This special episode of Legally Bond is a reposting of Kim's conversations with Monica Barrett, Blaine Bettinger, Doretta DiCola, Bob Lazzaro, Laura Ryan, Jennifer Tsyn and Sharon Wager who are all members of the Bond Pride group. These discussions highlight the importance of celebrating LGBTQ History month.
This special episode of Legally Bond is a reposting of Kim's conversations with Monica Barrett, Blaine Bettinger, Doretta DiCola, Bob Lazzaro, Laura Ryan, Jennifer Tsyn and Sharon Wager who are all members of the Bond Pride group. These discussions highlight the importance of celebrating LGBTQ History month.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bon Cheneykin King. I'm your host, kim Wolf Price. This is a very special edition of Legally Bond. It is the episode that we celebrate LGBTQ History Month, which celebrated each October in the United States. In this episode you'll hear several short interviews with individuals from throughout the firm. You'll hear from administrative staff, marketing professionals, associates, senior council and members, including a member of our management committee.
Speaker 1:The affinity group Bond Pride, a group made up of people from throughout Bond who focus on raising awareness and community surrounding LGBTQ identities, helped craft the questions you will hear me ask today. Thank you to that group and to all of our interviewees today. I'm so grateful that they were willing to share their thoughts and their time. And now let's hear from them on the importance of LGBTQ history and the importance of listening and learning to increase belonging within our workplaces and our communities. We'll start this special episode with Monica Barrett. Monica is a member of the firm who serves in many leadership roles. She's on our management committee, new York City office's co-managing member and, luckily for me, co-chair of our diversity committee. Welcome back to the podcast, monica thanks very much, Kim.
Speaker 2:It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited for this special episode that we're having, and I'm going to start with this question to you why is celebrating LGBTQ History Month important?
Speaker 2:I think LGBTQ History Month is important to celebrate because I think it's important for our community to represent ourselves and I especially in my position at the firm. I think for me to be out as a lesbian and I talk about my wife all the time at work and my two adult children I feel like it's very important for me in a leadership position to be representing our community. I think Bond is a wonderful place to be proud of who I am and to be part of the community here.
Speaker 1:I think that's fantastic and I have to say, through Zoom it's been kind of nice because we've been able to meet Alexis in meetings every once in a while. That's right yes, so yeah, it's great to have the ability to just talk about your life and to have you as a representative, as someone who is in leadership roles, I would imagine for junior attorneys and staff, it's really important.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean because I came out in the I think it was early 90s, I would say I mean things have changed so much and I spent the early years of my legal career being closeted about who I was, and it's impossible to live that way. So I'm glad those times are behind us.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely so. I guess my next question is then why is it important to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 2:I think it's especially important for all of us to realize that there are a lot of people who aren't as privileged as I am, for example in terms of getting support systems about being LGBTQ.
Speaker 2:When I was working at Rutgers, I was there when Tyler Clementi took his own life. And Tyler was a freshman at Rutgers who was spied on by his roommate when his roommate believed that he had a date with a man and he was going to bring him into his dorm room and the roommate actually set up a camera to focus on Tyler and his boyfriend who was coming into the dorm room and it was all surreptitious and when it was disclosed that it was about to happen, tyler took down the camera. But then he took his own life by jumping off the George Washington Bridge and he had not been out to his family. He was coming to Rutgers the first couple of weeks of school he decided to be out at school. But that kind of situation I mean it happened over 10 years ago, but it really struck me as how important it is to educate ourselves about LGBTQ issues and to be open and welcoming in all of our communities to people who are different than us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We wish those tragedies were far in the past, but unfortunately many folks, as you said, are not in a position with support systems.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think transgender youth are especially vulnerable, and I was at a panel discussion at our annual conference National Association of College and University Attorneys, and we had a presentation on religious colleges and LGBTQ students at religious colleges, and that was a very good learning experience. There were 200 attorneys in attendance, but that's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it was. The general council from Brigham Young was there on the panel with us and Shannon Minter, who is a legal director at the National Center for Lesbian Rights, was with us on the panel and we were talking about how transgender youth who grow up in the Midwest. A lot of people say, wait until you become 18, and you can move to a big city where you're accepted. But a lot of people are in circumstances where they cannot afford to move from small towns and we have to educate ourselves all across the country, especially about LGBTQ youth.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's a way to protect them.
Speaker 2:Definitely Way to protect them.
Speaker 1:Well, so I guess then we should talk about our profession In particular. Why is LGBTQ History Month important for attorneys and the legal field, I guess. Why is it important for lawyers in the legal field to listen and learn during this time.
Speaker 2:I think it's incredibly important for us to learn the language of LGBTQ history and terminology. Our colleague, teresa Rosnack, does an excellent presentation on transgender issues and gender identity and expression. She's incredible, and I think that lawyers need to educate ourselves about enough so that we can educate our clients, and I had the advantage of working in-house at a university where universities tend to be a little more progressive than the work world in even in New York City, so the environment is always pushing the edges of every social issue and I think educating attorneys is so important so that we can be ahead of our clients and giving advice.
Speaker 1:I think that's really important. And one, maybe one thing for us attorneys we have to be okay with not always getting it perfect. If you use the wrong pronoun, say my apologies. I'll do better and work on it for next time.
Speaker 2:That's right. I can remember 30 years ago, at the early part of my career, being asked about a transgender employee, and I can say now, times have changed definitely, and so we have to change along with the times, and I think as attorneys, we have a responsibility, an ethical responsibility, to do that.
Speaker 1:I agree. Well, thanks so much for joining us, Monica. Thanks for your leadership at the firm. We hope to have you back on the podcast again soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks a lot, my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Next we welcome back Dr Blaine Bettinger. Blaine is a patent attorney working out of Bond's Syracuse office. Welcome back to the podcast, blaine. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 5:Well, thank you very much, Kim.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you back for our special episode on LGBTQ History Month, so I'm going to start with a question about the month. What do you hope people take away from a Heritage Month like LGBTQ History Month?
Speaker 5:You know, what I think are great about Heritage Months or weeks or whatever the timeframe might be, is that it can expose you to new information and resources and history that you might not otherwise be exposed to. So, whether it's LGBTQ, whether it's any other months that it might be, it gives you these an opportunity to learn something new, right? So it's kind of unavoidable that you're going to be running into these celebrations and and, as a consequence, you're going to be seeing these resources and, although it is kind of incumbent upon you to go out and chase down these resources and actually take advantage of them, the fact that they're kind of being kind of hand fed to you in this Heritage Month I think is is one of the advantages of of having a month like this.
Speaker 1:I think you use the perfect word when you said opportunity. Right, it's an opportunity and hopefully one that people will avail themselves of when, when this information is sent to them.
Speaker 5:Right, I think you know a Heritage Month is only as good as the people that are taking advantage of the opportunity, right? So hopefully more people do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's perfect. Yes, well, is there anything that you'd like to share? That about the importance of educating ourselves, taking these opportunities on issues of diversity and inclusion, and the impact that education can have on individuals.
Speaker 5:Right. It's sort of unlimited right, because you never know what you're going to learn about these different issues of diversity and inclusion, for example, right. So one thing that my eyes have sort of been open to over the past maybe five, 10 years is how much diversity there really is, right. So I think sometimes you may not even realize that someone is facing an issue of non-inclusion and discrimination, and so understanding all the different ways that that discrimination and exclusion can occur is, I think, a beneficial thing, just because it helps us understand our colleagues, our friends, our even our family all the better. So just exposure to awareness of these issues, again, I think, getting back to that issue of opportunity, we may not be great always about capitalizing upon opportunity, but the fact that these opportunities are being given to us, even that exposure, just that exposure alone, is, I think, an educational aspect of helping understand the challenges that people of all different backgrounds and experiences face on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great way to put it and hopefully it helps us all be a little more accepting and patient with each other. I think as well.
Speaker 5:Yes, hopefully, hopefully it does yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So, in particular since this is LGBTQ History Month, why do you think LGBTQ History Month is important for attorneys and for our profession, the legal profession and I guess the way I suggested that we flip that a little bit or maybe you did, because you helped me edit these questions is, in particular, why is it important for lawyers and the legal field to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 5:Well, I think in some ways and maybe a little bit of this might be personal experience, but I think the legal field is an area where there's a lot more.
Speaker 5:Perhaps tradition, I think, is maybe one way to put it right, and the legal field that we're the idea of what an attorney is is kind of a little bit sometimes outdated, right, where attorneys come from every background that people come from, and so the legal field should look like that, right.
Speaker 5:The legal field should look like the diversity of the world around us, and often it does not, and so I think the legal field in particular needs to sort of get up to speed on the issues that its attorneys are facing, whether they realize their attorneys are facing that or not. I also think that the legal field needs to become more diversified. It still has a very, very, very long way to go, and it's an uphill battle, because our clients want diversity, Our clients are diverse, and so it's important for us to not only represent diversity ourselves, right, because that's what we really need to do, but also because our clients are. That's who our clients are, and they're going to expect that diversity as well, and so I think it's important that all those of us in this field recognize that and try to embrace it and try to make sure that we reflect the world around us as much as possible.
Speaker 1:And I mean the law itself has played a role in historical exclusion. Right, there's laws that have been put in place, and so recognizing that and changing that, yeah, is also important to this as well. Sometimes, as lawyers, we sort of think the law is good, right, but there are sometimes where it has not served the purpose that we would like it to.
Speaker 5:Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And we all have opportunities, big and small, right To increase the diversity and inclusion around us. It could be just welcoming someone into the firm, or it can be, you know, if you're in a position to assist with recruiting and hiring, that's a bigger opportunity. But every single one of us has a chance to help increase the diversity of the legal field around us.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks so much, blaine. Thanks for joining us again. I hope you'll come back to the podcast again soon and I really appreciate your help in putting the questions together for this special episode.
Speaker 5:Absolutely my pleasure and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Our next guest is Abigail Cummings, an administrative professional in Bonn's Albany office. Welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining us, Abigail.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Really excited to talk to you today and I'm looking forward to actually meeting you in person, since we've only been Zoom colleagues so far. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:It's very exciting.
Speaker 1:All right, Very good. Well, I appreciate you taking part in our special episode podcast. The first question for you today is what do you hope people take away from a heritage month like LGBTQ History Month?
Speaker 3:Well, what I hope is that people can gain more insight into the community as a whole, the fight for equality, the persecution and mistreatment that has been and is still suffered by members of this community around the world. I really hope that people can also take some time to educate themselves on some of the really great achievements that have come from a lot of the members within our community. It would be really great to see those people really get the recognition that they deserve.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's an important point, and also not only recognition, but for younger folks, for people who maybe haven't been able to express themselves as they would like to. It's great to have role models or people to see themselves somewhere.
Speaker 3:Absolutely for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. So I guess then that leads to my next question why is it important to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 3:Well, many people throughout the world have negative, preconceived notions about the community, which encompasses such a wide variety of people. I'm hoping that by listening and learning, the people that have these negative ideas can gain more insight, as I said in the beginning, but also empathy and kind of come to the realization that the LGBTQIA community wants to be recognized as just human beings, not anything less than or as something completely separate from the rest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an excellent point. So my final question to you is is there anything you'd like to share about the importance of educating ourselves on issues of diversity and inclusion? We have a long way to go, but what is the impact that education can have on individuals?
Speaker 3:I definitely agree. We have a very long way to go. I do think that education is key. Just as with any group of people, there's many people within our community that have such great potential. Unfortunately, a lot of times that potential goes unrecognized or goes untapped out of fear and anxiety.
Speaker 3:There's so many people within the community who might opt out of applying for certain jobs, certain positions. They may opt out of participating in certain events or doing certain things out of that fear and anxiety. Some may choose the route of just not being open about who they are and in these situations it can be triggering for some because you're basically reconditing yourself and that's a whole nother topic that can be discussed separately. But for those who, on the other hand, if you're putting yourself out there, then you are taking that risk of getting that backlash. And personally I do know how that feels being in that limbo situation where you're not really sure what to do, you're not sure what you should say.
Speaker 3:But I can say that I'm really grateful to have found a place like Bond. I remember being really shocked that the firm had a pride group and it was a really great feeling because I don't think I've ever really seen that before in any other workplaces that I've had experience with. So I wish for everybody in the community to have that, and I feel like Educating anybody who might be on the outside or those who might not have the opportunity to know someone personally who's a part of the community, is huge, because I feel like it's not always hateful. Sometimes it's just ignorance which might not necessarily be their fault. So education for sure is, I think, the key to kind of turning that around.
Speaker 1:Those are excellent points. I appreciate you sharing that with us and sharing your thoughts. The one thing that we're trying to remind people as well is that sometimes you just have to try if you're an ally, right and if you stumble a little bit, apologize, ask what you could do better and then work on that going forward as well. So it's been great to get to know you through this group and I hope to see you in person. Thanks again for joining the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me, guys.
Speaker 1:Our next guest is Doretta DeCola, an administrative professional working from Bond's Westchester office. Welcome to the podcast, doretta.
Speaker 7:Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for joining us. It's great to have you here. So, on this episode for LGBTQ History Month, we have a few questions that we're asking. We let everyone pick the ones that they just wanted to answer, so I'm going to start with the first one for you what do you hope people take away from a heritage month like LGBTQ History Month?
Speaker 7:Well, first let me answer the question by saying, you know my perspective is an emotional perspective. This has affected a family member of mine and you know it's probably not going to be the most academic or even well versed response from your panel, but it's strictly my story about my brother's transition in his late fifties, to whom I now refer to as my brother, julia. So what do I hope people will take away from this is really a stronger sense of compassion and willingness to open their minds to things that they might not understand, like I didn't understand when my brother first presented this to me in his late fifties. You know, I had a brother for, you know, close to 60 years and all of a sudden he wants to be my sister and so it was difficult.
Speaker 7:And what I hope people will take away from this is a broader sense of what's normal, because really that was the first obstacle that I faced.
Speaker 7:I said to my 20 something daughter but don't go loud, this is just not normal, you know. And she said to me in her very modern attitude Mom, who defines normal? So that's really was a beginning for me. I actually had looked up normal and the dictionary and trying to come to terms to this and I actually found that normal a cinnamon for normal is actually natural and that was comforting because I can tell you from my experience with my brother Julia, as well as other people that I know in the LBG TQ community, is that they are in a natural state of being and my brother Julia now as a woman, is the most natural state of being that I've known her in my 60s some odd years and I'm very happy to have been able to get beyond that, get beyond what's normal and get beyond what was scary and get beyond what was difficult to understand, and I think that's what I'd like for people to take away from this.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you sharing that. It's a it's a great story. So I guess the question then to you is why is it important for people to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 7:Well, I mean, this time is particularly important because for the first time, you know, we are having civil liberties taken away from us and I think this community is at risk and in danger. I never thought that I would live to see the day that women's rights would be taken away as far as choice and without getting too political. I'm fearful for Julia and the consequences that she may have to face if the conservative agenda continues.
Speaker 1:It's certainly we worry about those who we love and sometimes hard for people who've never had their civil rights on the chopping block to understand, but it's important that everybody sort of pay attention and see what's happening around them. Is there anything that you would like to share about the importance of educating ourselves on issues of diversity and inclusion? Maybe the impact that education can have on people?
Speaker 7:Oh yes, and it came in a very unlikely place. Here at work, through a program of yours for diversity, you showed a film, art the firm showed a film entitled from this tape forward, and that had been a tremendous impact on me because it just coincidentally happened to have been at the time that I was presented with my brother, julius transition, and it gave me a sense of normalcy. And I think you know people and programs like this. You just don't know who you're going to touch and and how you may have an effect on someone, because a lot of people like me and the people in the community are silent and maybe afraid to say anything. So to have programs like this and education, you just don't realize what a profound effect it had on me personally, because it opened my mind to listen and to learn through the film that you showed here.
Speaker 7:And so another normal quote, unquote family, not a Hollywood tabloid story of some celebrity who's now transgender. This was a normal family with a mother and father and children, and you can relate to that more. And that movie was the first step for me because prior to seeing that movie here at Bond, I was mad at my brother. I, I was angry, I was bitter, I was worried, I was sad and I was all those things. But seeing a program like that here in a law firm, in my place of employment, had a profound effect on me and I feel grateful, which is why I've agreed to do this, because I'm ordinarily a very shy person who runs from things like this. So I feel that it was important to stand strong and in reciprocation to the firm and also in reciprocation to the people who stood firm, because if it wasn't for those people in history and in present, I don't think I would have Julia today, because my brother was ending one way or the other, and I'm glad that my brother is Julia now and I still have my brother.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you sharing that story with us to read it, and I hope it wasn't too bad to be on the podcast, but it's always great to talk to you. I really, really do appreciate you sharing with us today, and all of our best, of course, to Julia and to your very wise daughter, as well as you and the rest of the family. Thanks again. Thank you. Next we'll speak to Bob Lazaro, the business development manager in the firm's marketing department. Hi, bob, thanks for joining us on this special episode of the podcast.
Speaker 6:Hi, kim, it's great to be here. Thanks for doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really appreciate it. I know that our conversations came from our bond pride group about LGBTQ History Month and having a special episode of the podcast and I appreciate all of your input on that.
Speaker 6:Great yeah, happy to be part of the Alliance.
Speaker 1:Thank you All right, so my first question to you is why is celebrating LGBTQ History Month important?
Speaker 6:So you know, thinking back growing up, if I had seen some positive role models, lgbtq role models growing up, it would have met really everything. To me, like, the only depictions that I kind of remember are from movies, let's say, and they're all very stereotypical, never the hero, the story, and a lot of times they were just negative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess the second question then to you is during a month like LGBTQ History Month and any time for allies and others, why is it important to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 6:It reminds me of a story or something that happened to me, because a lot of times in the here and now it's not necessarily part of some people's experience. They don't have an LGBTQ person in their life, you know, it's just something that is kind of out there and doesn't affect them, but at some point it could. So, you know, the story that comes to mind is when I was in grad school, one of my best friends. After kind of almost a year of knowing each other and becoming good friends, I finally came out to him and you know, at the time he said oh, you know, nothing's changed. You know it's all cool, but then we really didn't hang out anymore after that and kind of hurtful at the time, obviously.
Speaker 6:Of course, yeah, but the interesting part was like six or seven years later I ran into him and we're catching up and the first thing he did was apologize for you know what happened to us and said he was living in DC don't ask, don't tell was just signed and a news reporter was doing a story and kind of looking for you know the person on the street type of thing. And he got asked when he was just about to get on the metro. You know what his thoughts were and he said I stopped and thought and my answer was different because I knew you that it would have been if I didn't. So you know, all those years later maybe, what happened in the past. He wasn't ready to really handle or know how to handle, but when it came down to it, as he matured, I guess it did change his perception. So that's why I think listening and understanding or at least kind of exposing yourself to positive role models will make a difference at some point.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you sharing that story, Bob, and I hope that it resonates I'm sure it will actually with a lot of our listeners. So thanks for joining us today, Thanks for sharing and thanks to your friend for taking that pause to listen and learn.
Speaker 6:Yeah, thanks, thank you and thanks for all you do with the Alliance.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much. Our next guest is Laura Ryan. Laura is our proposal and editorial specialist on Bond's marketing team. Thanks for joining the podcast today, laura. Oh, it's my pleasure. I really appreciate you being here, all right? Well, as you know, our topic is LGBTQ History Month, and I'm going to start with this first question for you. Then what do you hope people take away from a Heritage Month like LGBTQ History Month?
Speaker 9:I guess my hope is that people realize that we've been here all along. We've been characters in the stories that people grew up hearing, and the contributions of gay people throughout history have kind of been lost to the historical record because they weren't writing the history, but they were definitely characters in all those stories. So I think that's my hope. My hope is that just remember we've been here all along and also to show young gay people today that they are characters in the continuing story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really important part, because sometimes, if we don't see ourselves, we don't think we belong Exactly.
Speaker 9:And you know, just to veer ever so slightly into the political, with all the whispers that are happening now about the Supreme Court applying the same standard that they did with Roe to Obergefell, you know it's never been more important to know the gains we made, how we made them and what we have to do to keep them.
Speaker 1:And I think for allies, it's important to understand as, particularly if one of your human rights has never been the subject of a Supreme Court decision, to pay attention and to think about that.
Speaker 9:Yeah, yeah, nobody's safe yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, so I guess that's a good time to ask them the question why is it important to listen and learn during a time like LGBTQ History Month?
Speaker 9:I think it's always important to listen, to learn, and what's kind of maddening now is I think we're at a point in history since history is what we're talking about. We're at a point where we've never had more options, more platforms to communicate with each other, and we've never done it less. I vent on my Facebook, you rant on your Twitter, we go into our respective echo chambers and we don't listen to each other, and I think months like this are just a good reminder to listen and learn, which we don't.
Speaker 1:And to remember that we're all part of this experiment, right, exactly, exactly, yeah. And when we all come together and listen to each other, we can not only learn great things, but accomplish great things.
Speaker 9:Well, exactly, and you know we're not specifically talking about coming out, but it's also coming out months and it's so important to remind people that you're not talking about a concept, you're talking about humanity, and everyone knows a gay person, whether they know it or not. If someone comes out, the chances of them knowing they know a gay person is greater.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if that's off topic but I think it's important right just to listen, to learn to be open and to accept people, for you know who they are and they're different perspectives, because it makes everything a lot richer, right.
Speaker 9:For all characters in the same story. That's right.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thanks so much, laura. I really appreciate you joining us on the podcast and thanks for all the stuff that you do for us here. Bunch of good cake Back at you, kim. Next we're speaking with James Taglianti, an attorney in the Labor Department in Bonds, albany Office. Hey, james, thanks for joining us today for this special episode.
Speaker 8:Thank you for having me, Kim.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate all the work that has gone into coming up with these questions and the thoughtfulness everyone has been putting in and responding, so I'm going to start with the first one for you is why is celebrating LGBTQ History Month important?
Speaker 8:Yeah. So I think there's definitely a couple of reasons. First and foremost, it's for establishing role models for queer children and the queer community generally. So I know, speaking to other people personally, professionally a lot of children feel that they can't be in certain roles when they grow up because there's no queer people in them. So, for example, there are no lawyers like me, there are no doctors like me, so maybe this isn't for me. So if we sort of put forward that there are people in important roles that do identify as queer, then that'll sort of help children when they're building their identity at a young age.
Speaker 8:Also, just for affirming queer contributions across history. So right now, sort of in secondary education, we have this linear sense of history we were here, there were a few wars, and now we're here, whereas we don't sort of have this history, and especially queer history, sort of in the mix there. So that's definitely important. And then, lastly, you know just sort of the political climate. I think now there's some states, unfortunately, that are looking to suppress queer history, queer discussion in elementary school, secondary school. So you know, how are we going to show up in light of that? How are we going to make sure that people get the message when some people don't want that message spread. So you know, I think it's on us to make sure that queer history is put forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great, great answer. Thanks so much for summarizing all of that, and I think when you say on us, that's on all of us, allies and those who identify as part of the queer community as well. So it's, those are very important points, and I mean we've seen and heard conversations where people have said like, oh, when I saw someone like me, I realized I could be whatever. You know, whatever it is, dr Lawyer, as you said. So it is really an important, just an important piece of should be everyday life, right.
Speaker 8:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree, All right. So another question for you Is there anything you'd like to share about the importance of educating ourselves generally on issues of diversity and inclusion and the impact that education maybe can have on individuals?
Speaker 8:Of course I think the most important thing about education is that it does lead to deeper understanding of people personally and then also cultures and ethnicities generally. So personal anecdote in college actually had the opportunity to minor in African, black and Caribbean studies and that sort of gave me a whole different perspective of understanding different cultures and identities and just in that I saw the greater importance of how do different people and their perspectives and something to conversations and bring something to the table, if you will. So I think if you take a little time just to understand other people's history, the development of other identities across time, it can really help you both personally and professionally when you're trying to relate to people and then just make people feel comfortable, you know, whatever space you may be in.
Speaker 1:That's a great point and it's a way to like, within your organization, make people feel comfortable if you're dealing with clients or others outside, if you're mentoring or, you know frankly, if you're standing online in the grocery store right, giving everybody a little grace and listening can be really important, of course. So I think, in particular this is the last question I'll ask you for today, but I hope you will come back for a future episode. So, in particular, why is LGBTQ history month important for attorneys and the legal profession? Or maybe I should say, in particular, why is it important for lawyers and the legal profession to listen and learn during this time?
Speaker 8:Yeah. So I think the interesting thing when you take a look at sort of the major advancements in queer history really the court cases that have shaped it happened within pretty much the last 10 years. So you know, we're looking at gay marriage, marriage equality, happening in 2015. We're looking at the term sex being expanded for title seven purposes in 2020. And those are some major advancements and very helpful things for the queer community.
Speaker 8:But you know, then we're looking at things like right now the Supreme Court is reviewing a case where they're deciding if artists can discriminate against LGBTQ plus people based on their own religious beliefs. So it's 303 creative. So it's going to be a very important case and I think, if that comes out on the opposite side, it's going to give a little fuel to people to say, okay, well, if I'm marketing myself as an artist, then I can deny services to queer people. So you know, these issues are happening now. It happened in very recent history. In terms of American legal precedent Also, just generally looking at a study in 2019, I'm only about 2.9% of lawyers identify as LGBTQ plus. So I think definitely as a legal profession, maybe at the legal education level, we have an obligation to sort of encourage queer people to become lawyers, contribute to the community any way they can and then make sure we're putting forward queer identities in legal spaces.
Speaker 1:That's great. I think those are really important points, and I would just add that you know, maybe for those listing allies who haven't had to wonder about their personal freedoms being impacted by a Supreme Court case anytime of late. That's why it's important to pause and learn here as well, because that is happening for others, and I think it's important to take a step back and think about that Also. I have a book for you Marriage.
Speaker 3:Quality.
Speaker 1:We had a speaker last year and I have a few copies, so I will send you a copy of the book.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:James just joined us very recently. How long ago did you join the firm, James?
Speaker 8:Yes, so last month.
Speaker 1:That last month fantastic. That's great, and in our first conversation you may have talked about this podcast episode, so I really appreciate James' willingness to jump right in and to be part of the Bond community to join us on the podcast, and I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and personal anecdotes today. And celebration of LGBTQ History Month.
Speaker 8:Of course and you know, being a being a new Bond attorney, the fact that we're able to have the discussion and the firms promoting this means a lot to me, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks, James. We'll have you back again soon. Our next guest is Jennifer Sin, a member in the business department who works out of Bond's Albany office. Welcome to the podcast, Jen. Thanks for taking part in the special episode Absolutely. Thank you for having me, so I'll start with a question about the month we're celebrating. Why is celebrating LGBTQ History Month important?
Speaker 4:So I would say for me you know I'm an ally to the LGBTQ community, so I mean for me. I think part of the reason why it's so important is that these experiences haven't necessarily been my experiences personally. I've experienced as being a parent to a member of the LGBT community, a sister to a member of the LGBT community, friends, so but it isn't my personal experience. So I've been experiencing that way and seeing the way things have changed, you know, from when my brother and I were teenagers in the 90s to colleagues that I went to law school with and we were new associates in the early 2000s the experiences they had and now the experiences 2022 that young people are going through. I think having that perspective of history helps us all see how far we've come, but how far there is still to go.
Speaker 1:I think those are excellent points. So to kind of follow up on that why do you think it is so important for all of us, allies and others to listen and learn during this time period?
Speaker 4:It hasn't been my experience. So, as much as I can feel like I understand some things, some of the struggles, because I'm seeing people I love go through them and I'm seeing the way things are in society, it isn't something that I personally have had to experience and I think it's so important for allies in particular to understand the history and understand you may think you understand what somebody else is going through, but that's really difficult to really fully grasp that. And I think hearing the stories of not just people we know but stories of people further back, even maybe before I was born, as old as I am, further back, the hardships that they face, the things they've had to go through, I think that that's so important and I love that we've got this additional month that we can read these resources and read these stories that really hammer it home, particularly for allies, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's an excellent point. Sometimes we might think we know or think we've been an ally for so long. But you make excellent points. It's not our story, it's not our experience and sometimes just like I guess in the law we have to listen twice as much as we speak.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, absolutely. I think we as an ally, we think we understand, but sometimes we don't fully get the picture. The first time as a parent, my daughter came home and told me some horrible things have been sent to her. It shocks you to think that's still happening, because it's so different from the way things are in my home and the way I treat other people that sometimes it's important to have that perspective.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great word, perspective it can't just be our own. We have to try to see others as well and to understand what we think it should be fine, now right, but we have to understand that it's not, and there's more learning to do so. I guess then my last question for you is is there anything you'd like to share about the importance of educating ourselves on issues of diversity and inclusion and sort of the impact that education can have?
Speaker 4:I think it's so important for younger people, obviously, but it's still so important for people. I mean, I'm in my 40s but it's still important to me and I love that these resources are out there and I think the education, even for our young associates and for folks in their 20s, helps them to really grow and be aware of some blind spots that we all might have. I recall when I was a young associate and I have a friend of mine from law school was talking to me. She was at a different firm than ours but telling me she wished she could be open about who she was at work and I'm saying, well, you should be, of course you should be and her trying to explain to me in the kindest possible terms that it was being a little naive just because I completely accepted her as she was. That not everybody does and that was something that I'm sure people still go through. It's important to understand that our perspectives aren't shared by everybody and I think that having learning about those can only be a good thing.
Speaker 1:That's great. Well, thanks, joan, for taking the time to share that with us. Those are excellent points about perspective and maybe taking a pause, sometimes as an ally, to listen and learn more. I think you're right the more we all learn, hopefully, the more progress we'll make.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for joining us. Hope to have you back soon.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:And our last guest on this special episode of Legally Bond is Sharon Wager. She's on the administrative team in our business department in the Syracuse office. Thanks for joining us on the podcast, sharon. Thanks for having me, kim. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's always great to get a chance to talk to you as well. So I think the first question I'll start with is there anything that you've learned about LGBTQ History Month that you'd like to share?
Speaker 10:Actually, it's really interesting to think about this, kim, because what I really have learned is that this is not a dry history lesson.
Speaker 10:It's absolutely fascinating to me to always go back and learn the history of anything, because it's just kind of the person that I am.
Speaker 10:But when it comes to LGBTQ History, it's also about society's acceptance and society's understanding and how it's evolved over the years, and I think that there's a lot that can be said about the influence of television over a number of years, that this has a huge impact on society and how we view everybody in the LGBTQ world, that they're not separate from us, that they are part of us, that every day we run into these people, they are part of our lives.
Speaker 10:There are parents, there are aunts and uncles and sisters and brothers and children and friends and coworkers and grocery store workers and restaurant workers. They're everywhere. So it's really great to me to stop and think of everything from Archie Bunker that was so politically incorrect and politically correct at the same time, and sort of watching that evolve up through to LA Law's First Lesbian Kiss, to friends of same-sex marriage, great up to great anatomy, which really works to show how LGBTQ people are in our everyday lives. They're doctors, they're nurses, they're patients. So that's really the surprising thing to me when it came to learning about LGBTQ history that this is not a dry history listing. It's still happening right in front of us and we need to recognize that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are great points that I think also sometimes for individuals who are part of the LGBTQ plus community seeing representatives of themselves on television, in media, it's an important way to feel accepted and to feel that belonging that we all hope to feel.
Speaker 10:Yes, absolutely, and it is up to the rest of us to make them feel comfortable and feel that they belong, that they are worthy individual, because we are all worthy individuals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think that's an excellent point. So I guess I'll follow off of that and say why is it important for us to listen and learn during this time.
Speaker 10:Right now, I believe that we have a Supreme Court that is positioning themselves to overturn Obergefell versus Hodges, which, of course, is a Supreme Court case that said that same-sex marriage is constitutionally guaranteed. This is another example of history in the making. We can watch as they're proceeding through case by case and they're basically eviscerating rights in some circumstances. So I think that it's important to listen and learn right now. We need to take the history lesson. We need to go back and see how things have evolved throughout history and watch where they're going in the future. We need to be careful.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot to be said about individuals who've never had their rights sort of on the ballot right and individuals who've never had to see the possibility of their rights being taken away, and that we need them to be allies in civil rights for all of us. So that's an excellent point, Thanks, Sharon. So my last question is is there anything you'd like to share about the importance of educating ourselves on issues of diversity and inclusion?
Speaker 10:I suppose the impact that education can have on individuals I think that it's important for us to educate ourselves when it comes to diversity, in being able to recognize that we are surrounded by diversity. We are living with people who are non-gender conforming, and we need to have an understanding of some of the struggles that they have. When we understand the struggles that people face on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, year after year, it gives us the opportunity to build empathy, and empathy is something that we all could use more of.
Speaker 1:Absolutely A little kindness, compassion and understanding and I think we would get a lot further.
Speaker 10:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, thanks so much, Sharon, for taking the time and for sharing your thoughts on LGBTQ History Month with us. We really appreciate it. Hope to speak to you again soon.
Speaker 10:Thanks. Take care, Jim. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally.
Speaker 1:Bond, if you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBond at bskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well. Bond Shannok and King has prepared this communication with the LGBTQ History Month.
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