In this special Pro Bono Week episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond attorneys Liza Magley, Liz Morgan, Andrew Rivera, Hannah Redmond and Elizabeth Heifetz and staff members Aubrey DeVeau and Macy Missigman. Bond attorneys and staff devote time each year to pro bono representation and to serving in our communities, on the boards of more than 100 entities, including legal aid societies, volunteer lawyers projects and various other civic organizations.
Learn more, here.
In this special Pro Bono Week episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond attorneys Liza Magley, Liz Morgan, Andrew Rivera, Hannah Redmond and Elizabeth Heifetz and staff members Aubrey DeVeau and Macy Missigman. Bond attorneys and staff devote time each year to pro bono representation and to serving in our communities, on the boards of more than 100 entities, including legal aid societies, volunteer lawyers projects and various other civic organizations.
Learn more, here.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bondtech and King. I'm your host, Kim Woll-Price. In the legal profession, the last week of October is celebrated as Pro Bono Week. This provides time to highlight the pro bono work of attorneys and staff at legal employers, as well as providing opportunity to encourage other attorneys to take on pro bono matters. In this week's episode of the podcast, we will hear from several attorneys and staff members at Bond who work on pro bono matters and provide support to Bond's pro bono efforts. Hey, Liza, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks, Kim. It's always great to see you, so thanks for coming back. Well in case, I'm sure everyone did listen to your last episode, but just in case, would you mind giving us some information, like your name, where you practice and your role at the firm?
Speaker 2:Sure, my name is Liza Magley. I am a member in our law firm's litigation department and I work out of the Syracuse office. I'm also on our firm's pro bono committee, which is pertinent to this episode.
Speaker 1:That's right, correct. Thanks so much, and that's one of the ways we get to work with each other, which is great. So I think I then have to ensure the member on this episode. I have to ask you this question. We kind of explain what pro bono practice is.
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, there's lots of different ways to think about pro bono practice. If you're someone who's looking for credit through your state or you're required to do certain things, you'll want to check your state bar's guidelines, but a lot of law firms also have pro bono policies. So there's lots of different ways to define it, but in general it falls into a few buckets, whether it's legal representation of individuals in court who can't necessarily afford it, whether it's in the civil context, such as landlord, tenant or prisoner rights litigation, or in the criminal context in some cases where the government doesn't necessarily have to afford an individual counsel. There's also other activities, like improving access to justice. You know being involved in your community's volunteer lawyer board, legal services board, things like that. There's helping organizations that serve individuals who are suffering from poverty, whether that's a religious or civic organization. And then there's you know your general sitting on boards, that you're not acting as their lawyer, but you may come in handy as they're making certain decisions.
Speaker 1:So it's a way to sort of provide legal services to those maybe, who are experiencing poverty or fall into that gap that may be just above that line but can't afford private attorney or public organization. So it's a way to give back.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's a way to help your community and help the justice system. You know, if you're an attorney, whether you work in federal court and state court, civil, criminal you know how backed up our judicial system can be. So you're not just assisting those individuals you just mentioned Kim, which is of course very important but you're helping our judges, you're helping everyone who's part of that process in making it a little bit more streamlined. And on the other side you're helping folks not just in the courtroom but perhaps in the boardroom. You know, if you're an individual with a small business or something like that, it doesn't have the same access but you need legal services to help kind of get your business started and kind of bring you out of an area where you wouldn't necessarily need this legal service anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. We've done some work to get minority women business enterprise certification for people to help with some of their intellectual property. You know individuals who are trying to sort of improve their communities, change their economic status, but don't have access to business lawyers, which is really what we are Exactly, exactly so. I think you've explained this a little bit. But you know, individuals attorneys can do it on their own, but why is it important for firms such as Bond to sort of do this in an organized and intentional way?
Speaker 2:Well, as the late great Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has been known to say, if you're a true professional you have to use your degree not just to make money but to make your community better, to make life a little better for other people. And when you work at a law firm and you have a lot of resources, you can really be organized about the impact you're making on your community. You can look out there and see where there are particular needs you can serve that maybe other smaller organizations can't. And as lawyers here at Bond we take pride in our work in the courtroom and in the boardroom, as we've said. But that also means we have to take pride in our communities, and one way you can do that is by assisting individuals access justice when they wouldn't necessarily be able to otherwise.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's why we do it in all the offices, right, whether it's just cause in Rochester or matters out there that's their volunteer lawyers project, or Arts and Central New York or Hudson Valley Legal Services. We have lawyers involved in all these different organizations.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and our pro bono committee here at Bond actually has individuals from each office across our firm so that we can work together in order to make sure we're impacting our individual communities and their unique ways and their unique needs in ways that will best use our resources and assist the community. That's right.
Speaker 1:So you did say this time you're a member, so congratulations. I know I've said it before, because the last time you were on you were an associate. So True, this is a new title for you, but so we're glad to have you as part of the membership here. And well, when did you first and pro bono work? Two year, legal practice.
Speaker 2:Well, I have to admit, pro bono is in my DNA.
Speaker 2:In that growing up, service to the community was ingrained in my family and myself.
Speaker 2:In fact, I went to my undergraduate institution on a full scholarship based on community service.
Speaker 2:So it was bound to happen that here at Bond I get involved pretty quickly and I think within the first week of working here I went and spoke with Tom Myers and George Low, who are retired members of our law firm but still actively engaged in our community, and I already had a project I wanted to work on with someone who needed some help with immigration issue. So from you know the get go, I have made it part of my practice and it's made my practice better and really more it's. It's so fulfilling and getting to know that you're helping other individuals that wouldn't necessarily have it otherwise is great. And from a practical standpoint as a young attorney, it was really good experience that I wouldn't necessarily have had, you know, standing up and getting on my feet in landlord tenant court when I wasn't necessarily doing that on a regular basis. It kind of gave me some some strengths that I wouldn't have achieved as quickly, while getting to help others, which, of course, is the ultimate, you know, end goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great. Well, it's obvious that it's in your DNA because we've we've seen you serving breakfast at the Emmaus Center and other places as well, so I may need you to talk to my kids and explain. This is why I make them do this all the time.
Speaker 2:I'll be happy to, and it always ends up circling back and being and being very worthwhile.
Speaker 1:Yes, All right. So if you wouldn't mind, will you tell us some of the types of matters you've worked on?
Speaker 2:Sure, I've worked on a few different categories of matters. I just mentioned landlord, tenant court. That's probably been my longest running pro bono experience from. I've worked both in the city of Syracuse and in the village of East Syracuse and both of those circumstances were a little different. Both for VLP volunteer lawyers project here in central New York and those for the most part are representing indigent tenants who fall within a certain category so that VLP can serve them and in city of Syracuse it was often, you know, creating deals on the fly when I first started. And in East Syracuse I always liked it a little better. You got the cases a day in advance.
Speaker 2:So you could actually look them over and and feel a little more prepared, but, in any event, great opportunities to help others. I've also worked on a couple other smaller matters. I've worked as what's called standby council, which is where an individual who in my circumstance he was incarcerated and he was taking a case to trial concerning his civil rights and he did not want to proceed with a lawyer but the court at the time thought he needed some assistance basically to act. I compare it to being a translator If you're someone who perhaps your client speaks Spanish and you have to translate from English to Spanish to them. I had to translate legal jargon to you know, regular everyday terms so that when someone overruled or sustained an objection I could explain to him what that meant, but I wasn't representing him, so that was through a trial that occurred in federal court.
Speaker 2:I've helped some religious organizations who offer medical clinics with figuring out kind of what their rights and what their responsibilities are with respect to serving individuals who are insured versus not insured, and I'm currently kind of I'm not doing the work, I won't take the credit for it.
Speaker 2:We have an associate in her Albany office who's working on an immigration matter and I'm the member who's just, you know kind of a resource observing there as she needs. And last but not least, I serve on some community boards, including the Loretto Foundation here in central New York is an organization I'm really proud of. I'm actually the third generation of my family to sit on the board and so yeah, yeah, we've had a long run there where we help serve the elderly, help people age in place in our community and then enter a continuum of care. But I'm also proud of Loretto Foundation's work with the individuals who work for Loretto. They do diaper drives, they help them get to work so that they can remain job secure and things like that. So I like to think I've kind of covered all four of the buckets that we talked about earlier, but I'm excited to always try new things too.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic, yeah. And one of those was taking on the matter as the member for an associate in another office who needed a litigation member really to help out. So that's fantastic, yeah, it's exciting. It's great. Well, thank you so much, Liza. I hope you'll come back soon to do a full episode. You let me know. The topic will come up with something and it would be great to have you back on to talk again.
Speaker 2:I'll be happy to Thank you so much, kim. All right fix.
Speaker 1:Hey, Aubrey, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me All right. Will you please let us know your name, your office and your role at the firm?
Speaker 4:Of course, my name is Aubrey DeVoe and I'm the professional development coordinator here at Bond, and I work out of our staircase office.
Speaker 1:Very good. I think you and producer Kate here should have some kind of maybe support group, because you two spend the most time with me overall. I'll get off this link later and you two can stay on if you want to do that. You're the professional development coordinator and somehow you're working on Pro Bono. What are some of the things you do to help Pro Bono initiatives here at Bond?
Speaker 4:Yes. First I'd like to say Kate and I are very lucky to be working with you and we don't get sick of you. I'll speak on behalf of Kate. I see she's nodding her head.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Secondly, my time here at Bond as professional development coordinator has been great and it's given me a lot of opportunity to work with our attorneys on a lot of the Pro Bono initiatives. Since you work closely with the Pro Bono committee, I work as well, both with the committee and you, to support the Pro Bono initiatives. I help a lot with scheduling our attorneys to help with certain programs that are in the area. I specifically help a lot with the Syracuse program. One organization that I help with a lot in communication with is the Volunteer Lawyers Project, the branch here in Syracuse, and the Volunteer Lawyers Project, or VLP as we call it, is a nonprofit legal organization that can help connect attorneys to low-income individuals that need legal advice or representation. We're closely with the individuals at VLP to coordinate and schedule our attorneys to help with various clinics in the area.
Speaker 1:That's great. You also open Pro Bono matters sometimes and help people when they have to open those, which is the process of getting a matter started at the firm. We have to clear conflicts and go through all that and you help things go through that process as well. Yes, that is correct, thank you. I am a terrible human. But is it one year? In a couple months? Now I'm very bad.
Speaker 4:You are not a terrible human. I think my one year is in five days or something.
Speaker 1:I just looked down at the date and I was like I think we're around the one year barricade for recovery. Congratulations one year at a lot Thanks for sticking with us here and working on. Pro Bono matters. How do you think the work on Pro Bono has enhanced your overall professional experience at bond during this first year and helped you understand the law profession?
Speaker 4:Yes, that's a great question. It definitely has helped me understand the profession. Something it has taught me is that attorneys have this innate want, or almost a need, to help people. Pro Bono helps fill that want that they are looking for. Attorneys are always looking for a solution. We see it here at bond. They work tirelessly to find solutions for not only our clients, obviously, but we see this also shown in the Pro Bono work. That has helped me understand attorneys a little bit better. Also has enhanced my experience here.
Speaker 4:It was when I started here with a great opportunity to get to know some of the attorneys at the firm. Some people I probably would not talk to on a normal basis get to reach out to every once in a while. I'm very appreciative of how everyone is here, because sometimes I'm emailing and calling trying to fill a spot Because, as many people know, in the law firm things come up that you can't reschedule. We have to fill spots sometimes. I'm always appreciative of how nice everyone is when I'm bugging them to fill a volunteer position that we might need. Everyone here is always willing to step up and help when we're in need.
Speaker 1:That's great. We have Pro Bono Week. We have a CLE coming that you're working on Correct Some other information. It's a great way for us to get the word out this Pro Bono Week, isn't it? Absolutely.
Speaker 4:We're very excited for the CLE and to promote all the good work that Pro Bono does for us at the firm and the individuals in our community.
Speaker 1:Terrific Well, thanks so much, Aubrey. Thanks for everything you do at lunch on me next week for your one-year anniversary here at the firm.
Speaker 4:Great, I'll have to do that again. All right, thank you Thanks.
Speaker 1:Hi, liz, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us, hi.
Speaker 6:Kim, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you. Before we get to your questions, would you mind telling us your full name, the office you're working in and some of your role in work at the firm?
Speaker 6:Sure, my name is Liz Morgan. I'm an associate in the business department here in Syracuse. My practice is primarily mergers and acquisitions, so repping both buyers and sellers of companies, as I also have a pretty robust general corporate practice everything from formation to general corporate governance everything under the sun with respect to corporate needs.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. I may have cheated because one of your classmates is on the podcast as well, but you're a 50-year associate now, aren't you?
Speaker 6:I know it's crazy, it doesn't feel it, but yeah, I officially feel older, old, older and old. Well, you're a neither of those. People did say not to digress, but people did say that as a fifth year, things really start to click and you really start to make your own practice, and I can attest to that. I'm like, finally, I really feel like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, Yep, that's what it is. It's like that's finally like third year law school where you're like, okay, this.
Speaker 7:I got.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, so you just mentioned that you're in our business department and you do a lot of transactional work like M&A and general corporate practice. So in the legal field, sometimes pro bono is thought of as something that the litigators do. Yet you joined the team at Bond who does housing related limited scope practice. Why is it important to you to conduct pro bono work?
Speaker 6:Yeah, as you mentioned, I do do matters in the landlord-tent and court here in a CRQ city, and the reason why it's important to me to do this pro bono work is really twofold. First, for purely personal reasons. The nature of the eviction process is really litigious and, being a business lawyer, I'm not in the courtroom, I don't go in front of a judge that often, so it really makes me step outside of my comfort zone, it makes me a better order and it keeps my practice pretty dynamic. So that's kind of selfishly reason. One Second and more important, is really for the social good. Syracuse and many other cities are facing serious eviction processes and it's largely due to the pandemic, but this was here well before the pandemic too and I feel like the advice and the help that I give. They've kept families and homes and I feel that I make a difference. That's very important to me to do this pro bono work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fantastic and you're right, there's. You know, as a lot of us know, this can sort of be a cycle for people if they lose their housing and then so many other sort of terrible things can happen. So even if we can keep people in their houses for a short period of time to give them the chance to gather what they need to to find another place to live, all of it matters. And a big part of what matters is people feel like they're actually being hurt.
Speaker 6:Yep exactly.
Speaker 1:So what have you learned from pro bono practice? Maybe how does it inform the rest of your work or what's?
Speaker 6:something you've learned generally.
Speaker 6:Well, I've learned actually about you know my practice and myself that I'm not actually that bad of a litigator. I think I can actually do it. You know I kind of surprised myself and like, ah, you know, that sounded really good in front of a judge. But in all seriousness, really, this pro bono practice, you know it overlaps with my practice more than you'd think. Oftentimes you are in a situation where you're negotiating with a landlord's attorney about, you know, a payment plan, or when a family can safely leave the premises, and my practice in business and in selling and buying companies is really the art of negotiation. So I've learned that about myself, that you know there are more similarities than what may appear on the surface. I've also learned and kind of you know this is one of my mantras that you know compassion is important that as an attorney it's really important to get back to the community and to help the disenfranchised who wouldn't ordinarily have this help. Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 1:So it's a huge part, and so would you encourage other transactional attorneys here or elsewhere to get involved, absolutely.
Speaker 6:And it's a little daunting. It can be a little scary because it's something that's you know, again, like I said, out of your comfort zone, but it's very rewarding and again it's. I really see it also as a duty to the community.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Thanks so much, liz. We need you to come back and do a full episode of the podcast. Okay, sounds good. Thanks so much. Thank you, hi, andrew. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 8:Hi Kim.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you back here. Thanks for joining us to talk about ProLono.
Speaker 8:Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. It's my second appearance here on the podcast. I'm a podcaster now, I guess.
Speaker 1:That's right, and that means when you come back next time to talk about your practice area, then it'll be like you know the full episode. So I guess that's what we should do now, is have you remind everybody your name, your office and what your practice area is.
Speaker 8:Sure, my name is Andrew Rivera. I'm a six-year associate here at Bond in the business department and I'm in the business restructuring, creditors' rights and bankruptcy practice group in the Syracuse office.
Speaker 1:So producer Kate's laughing at me because every time an associate has said their year, I'm like how is that already the case? Like hot six years. That's amazing.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It goes faster for me than it probably does for you all in your first couple of years of practice.
Speaker 8:Yeah, it does feel like a long six years, but the number does shock me as well when I think about it, right?
Speaker 1:because you think about it twice as long now that then you were in law school.
Speaker 8:Especially when you put it that way.
Speaker 1:I'm here for you to do that, andrew. Anytime, all right. So, as you mentioned, you're doing a lot of the financial restructuring, creditors' rights, bankruptcy work, but you volunteer on different types of matters and often related to eviction proceedings. So why is it important for you to conduct pro bono work, even if it's outside of your practice area?
Speaker 8:So for me, pro bono started back in law school and it was really just an opportunity for me to actually get hands-on legal work. My strategy from the beginning of law school was to get as much experience as I could get those resume builders going and I went to Albany Law School and they have a number of clinics there and I joined the community development clinic and it was there where I got my first experience working on pro bono type matters and I remember the thrill of the first client who I still keep in touch with, the Harlem Film School and the principal. His name is Pedro Arresto, great guy, and he still has this passion for what he did and we helped him set up a nonprofit for his organization and get him 501c3 status so that he could operate his business tax-free, and just the gratitude and his vision for his work was just it made the job easy. What he does is he it's Harlem Film School and he has a number of schools that he works with and he does after-school programs.
Speaker 8:He uses film to teach kids English language and also life lessons. So they're at-risk kids and they write scripts and then they film little mini videos and he sends me some trailers from time to time. So it's good that I keep in touch with him. So that's where I started and from there just grew and I knew that it was going to be a part of my career going forward.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. I really love that story and you know it goes also. I think that the other great Danes at UAlbany would be proud of you too, because that was your undergrad right.
Speaker 8:It was Good times there as well.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So then you came to the firm after you graduated from Albany Law and then did you get involved with the eviction clinic pretty much right away.
Speaker 8:Yes. So when I started it was something that all of the associates kind of volunteered at. And then when I learned that the primary opportunity for young associates here was the landlord-tenant eviction court of Pro Bono it's with the Volunteer Lawyers Project when I found out that it was in a courtroom, I jumped at it. I wanted to get courtroom experience immediately because as a bankruptcy attorney I often joke with the litigators here that we're in court more than they are at the litigation department. So I knew from the start I wanted courtroom experience and because of the size of the matters that our practice group typically gets, it takes a couple years before they let associates out of the offices and into the courtroom.
Speaker 8:Pro Bono in this area was an exception, so I learned a lot from it. It's obviously a completely different practice area, so I had to learn a whole new area of the law. And then I also learned that for clients, especially in the context of landlord-tenant court, it's not always about getting a win and getting a case dismissed. Sometimes it's getting the least sucky option, for lack of a better way to put it True.
Speaker 1:I think they call it losing less terribly LLT.
Speaker 8:There we go. Very eloquently put, sometimes it's just slowing down the process so they could buy an extra month or two to find a new place to live or to close out the school year in the district for their kids things like that, and, similar to my other experiences, they're typically very gracious for the help because without you there they would literally have nobody, and sometimes it's just a matter of hearing them out and listening to their story and then just doing what you can to help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that you really hit it right there. Sometimes it's just letting people be heard who, in the process, are often not heard and giving them a little bit of flexibility so they can make a terrible situation but make it have a little more dignity and calm for them.
Speaker 8:Agreed.
Speaker 1:So okay, how are you going to help me convince others to become involved in Pro Bono work? Any thoughts? Would you encourage other people to do it?
Speaker 8:I would definitely encourage other people to do it, and here's why it can't hurt. If you really don't like it you could talk to somebody and stick to your regular billable work. But for me it's been just a little side piece of work where maybe I'm sick of working on a particular matter or a type of case and then I get to every month or so I get to pivot and go to Landlord Tentacore and get in my feet and be able to flex those muscles. So it just rounds out your practice. And then for those that are listening, from other firms or in law schools a lot of firms they'll accept non-billable hours that are done on Pro Bono matters. So it might count to your end of the year goal. So that's another reason. If you can't be persuaded by the type of work it is, maybe it could help you get to that magic number at the end of the year.
Speaker 1:That's very true. We give at bond 50 hours of credit towards your billable target is Pro Bono.
Speaker 8:That's true, yes, Right.
Speaker 1:So if there's not the other reason, give that a try, and then you'll get hooked on it and you'll keep doing it.
Speaker 8:Yes, I would agree.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thanks so much, andrew. It was great to talk to you. We're looking forward to having you come back and talk about financial restructuring and some of the other work you do.
Speaker 8:Anytime. Kim, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, appreciate it. Hey, hannah, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 5:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here for my first time on the podcast.
Speaker 1:I know you do know this means you have to come back, right, well, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5:And now I'm excited for my first go round.
Speaker 1:I know this is great. Thanks so much. And on the important topic, which is Pro Bono, so will you tell the listeners your name, your office and what you do here at the firm?
Speaker 5:My name is Hannah Redmond. I am a fifth year associate and I sit in the firm's Syracuse office. I practice in the labor and employment department, so that is my primary practice area, but I dabble in some litigation matters as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I have to take a pause for a second, because you're a fifth year associate. I'm not quite sure where this went.
Speaker 5:Isn't that weird. I think that's technically right. Didn't we just flip in? Am I allowed to say that I think, yeah, four years, four full years.
Speaker 1:I know I can't believe it. I just feel like I like saw you at the law school and I feel like I was just at the law school. It's crazy, oh boy, oh, my goodness. Well, so in these four years of practice, when did Pro Bono first become part of your work here?
Speaker 5:So Pro Bono actually became part of my practice. Before I technically even had a practice I summered with the firm after my second year of law school and that's when I first became in Pro Bono work. I got involved in a section 1983 case involving a civilly confined individual and that was my first client meeting. I went and met this person with another more senior attorney from the firm and then that case kind of became my first foray into Pro Bono work. So really very early on in my career I've been active in Pro Bono matters.
Speaker 1:That's great In 1983 as a civil rights matter and it's a litigation, correct it is. So you're in federal court, which is fun.
Speaker 5:Yes, Very fun. Yes, I think it was my first notice of appearance before a federal court. It was. You know. This particular 1983 case marked many significant milestones in my career.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic, so I know that you've we've worked on that matter. Are there other types of Pro Bono matters that you've worked on at the firm?
Speaker 5:So I'm currently handling another separate section 1983 case and most of my Pro Bono work has been in that context of a section 1983, some sort of constitutional violation in federal court, so typically handling litigation matters. But I also participate in the firm's Lane Law Retainment Court program through the Volunteer Lawyer Project of Central New York. I've been active in that since I joined the firm as a full-time associate in 2019. And that's had a lot of different iterations over the years and through the pandemic, but going to housing court and representing tenants who you meet five minutes before you're you know standing up and making appearance on behalf of them, or counseling over the phone and answering questions before you get into the courtroom.
Speaker 1:That's true because you did have the. We did have those pandemic years where things started to go back to being over the phone. So those 1983 times we get appointed as a law firm, often right, or asked to handle those by the federal court.
Speaker 5:Yes, that's right. The first one was with the firm before I became involved, so I'm not sure the first 1983 case, the origin story there. But the second case, section 1983 case, is a case that we got from the court directly. The pro bono coordinator reached out and asked for somebody within the firm to staff the case and then a team of us got together and said that we could take it on.
Speaker 1:That's really fantastic. Well, do you mind talking about some of the ways that pro bono has impacted your career as a labor and employment attorney, and just generally?
Speaker 5:So as a labor and employment attorney I haven't handled any pro bono matters that substantively aligned with my practice. But my practice is very litigation heavy and I appear before administrative agencies quite frequently as well and in arbitration. So even the non litigation labor and employment files are more adversarial in nature and so these section 1983 cases have given me a lot of exposure to making succinct arguments and putting together a story and moving a case through a litigation type process. So the procedural applications have really really served my labor and employment law practice very well. And, like I said, I do handle a lot of litigation in the labor department that are, you know, on labor and employment topics and the process is the same in all the cases regardless of what statutes were arguing about. So many of my significant lawyer milestones have come in the context of pro bono work. So my first deposition was in a pro bono case and my first appellate oral argument was in the context of a pro bono case.
Speaker 1:So I got really great hands on experience at a very junior level and I got this kind of exposure to great mentorship from other more seasoned litigators within the firm and I got to see how they handle these kinds of cases Well I think that you know, sometimes people think about pro bono is sort of a task, but what you're talking about is a way to make it part of your practice and to enhance what you do, but also to have the opportunity to take this law degree that gives us all this privilege and use it to bridge that access to justice gap.
Speaker 5:I think that's right. So, in addition to the education and the experience that it's afforded me, it's also, as you're saying, it's service to the community, it's service to the profession and to the judicial process. Frankly, being attorneys assist in these cases helps the case move through the judicial process more efficiently, more expediently, and we do try to serve justice right. We're trying to give a voice to those who have maybe not had the right access or the right tools to make their voice heard or to articulate what it is they're trying to say, and so we're kind of the conduit that allows their story and their voice to be heard.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Thanks so much, hannah. I'll call you back on the podcast soon. Okay, all right, sounds great. Look forward to it. Thanks, hi ladies. Welcome to the podcast. Hi there, cam, how are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for joining us today. It's great to be able to talk to you, so will you do us a favor, as it's haven't been on the podcast before, will you tell the listeners your name, your office and your role at the firm?
Speaker 7:Sure. So, as Kim said, I'm Elizabeth Hypheth, I'm in the New York office. I've been here for I think it'll be two years in March and I work on corporate immigration generally, employment basis for corporations in different industries, predominantly financial and healthcare.
Speaker 1:And in our firm that practice group is in the labor department, correct?
Speaker 7:Correct. Yes, very much so. Very much intersects a lot of labor, litigation work that we do.
Speaker 1:Very good, all right. So you said you've been here. It'll be two years in March and you started working on pro bono matters pretty quickly after you joined the firm. Why was it important to you to conduct pro bono work so quickly?
Speaker 7:You know that's a great question. I think it's because, for me specifically, the nature of the pro bono work that I do is what makes the difference. So, as I mentioned, I do on a day-to-day corporate immigration, which is very different than humanitarian work At times. Humanitarian work doesn't really come into play on a day-to-day. I work with large corporations and clients and even though it's really interesting and also you need foreign nationalism all over the world, it's great, it kind of doesn't allow for the kind of humanization that humanitarian pro bono work within the immigration field allows.
Speaker 7:So the reason it was important for me to kind of I didn't even think otherwise was to direct all my pro bono focus towards humanitarian immigration work because, like I said, it humanizes the immigration work as a general field and immigration generally. Stakes are high, but specifically in asylum, tps, fidge, all those cases, the stakes are even higher because you're dealing with life and death situations essentially, and legal assistance is kind of like the only lifeline available to people facing life-altering consequences. So that's kind of what allowed me to immediately jump into it. I just always had that in the back of my mind, like this is something that needs to get done and this is the perfect way to do it.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned TPS, which is temporary protective status. Is that correct?
Speaker 4:Correct.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of different ways People might think of asylum primarily, which is someone trying to escape their country of origin based on some type of harassment, torture, criminal activity or other anti-humanitarian efforts being put at them. But TPS can be folks who are already here. Is that right?
Speaker 7:That is true and that particular kind of immigration visa or I mean visa equivalent applies a lot to younger children. It's actually more important. It's been going through a lot of ups and downs within the government, as you probably have heard, seen in the news. New countries are added to Elvedor, which added most recently, prior to that, Hedi, Honduras, Nepal, Nicaragua, Sudan and it does apply to a lot of children benefit from this. Right now, a lot of it is kind of up in the air in terms of how long the longevity of it, the sustainability of it, but right now it is still kind of utilized for a lot of children. I'm working on a case right now actually, that a family is an asylum case but the eldest child is the TPS child because he's no longer qualified for asylum based on his age. So it all kind of intersects. They're all different, they're all nuanced and he's the one on our toes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and you've worked on a couple of matters that relate to children. Is that right?
Speaker 7:That is true. So it's all. Asylum and all kind of humanitarian work has a place in my heart, but specifically when it comes to children, I just have a very difficult time saying no to any of those cases, the kind of cases I worked on. My first one when I first started was actually for a Ukrainian boy who was coming to the US and needed to be reunited with a family member. So we tried to do a humanitarian parole application for him. But that was his best kind of shot eligibility to come into the US. He's here, he's flourishing actually, was talking to his uncle recently and he's doing amazing learned.
Speaker 1:English super-super-great kids.
Speaker 7:But yeah, that was one of my first cases when I first came in and since then have done several different things children, adults, you know, medical emergencies there's just a lot. There's a lot of cases that need help. A lot of nonprofit organizations that are devoted to different immigration cases in this generally gender-based violence, lgbt cases, all across the board, and they're inundated. So any kind of help that they can get from any attorneys outside the organization is super helpful. So they send us a quite a bit of cases.
Speaker 1:That's great, and those of us who don't do immigration work are all terrified of immigration cases. But TPS, I think, is something that maybe we could even learn and help live a little bit, that type of application.
Speaker 7:That's true. I mean applications themselves. Generally, they're relatively straightforward in terms of the documents you accumulate, but then the issue comes in with supporting documentation and being able to provide with the correct amount of evidence to support each case. Immigration service right now is very much scrutinizing all applications, especially asylum and TPS cases. It just depends, honestly, on what officer is reading your application. We need to go through a series of if you don't have the documentation you know sent through from these individuals, because a lot of times it's difficult to get from your home country.
Speaker 1:Right, we have to go through it Exactly like.
Speaker 7:you can't just go ask the country, the government of the country escaping from hey, can I have my medical records? Can I have the prison arrest from this and this incident can I please see? Because a lot of these need to back up injuries that they've sustained. You need to back up what their persecution was. You need to back up all this and it's very difficult what we do from our end. You can, rather, I work with Mount Sinai to do a lot of psychological evaluations and a lot of just general physical exams to kind of confirm stories, the humanitarian scope of immigration. It's a lot of nuanced, technical work where templates don't really exist, so it kind of allows for a breath of creativity. But it's also very nuanced and very technical and it has to be done a certain way because if you mess one thing up, you know your application gets denied and horrible consequences can ensue depending on the situation. And sometimes there is no guarantee for any of these cases Of course.
Speaker 7:The immigration service does like, taking their time, even when we try to expedite. My most recent case was a medical emergency for a gentleman who was in a coma. Currently, right now, from Mexico, has been working here but his family isn't allowed to come here. So we're trying to get a humanitarian parole for him. He's critical condition and it's still processing and we've expedited. We've said you know, this is a severe emergency, doctors need his wife and here at least to make decisions and nothing. So we're doing everything. You know we're trying to go through different routes Consular processing and trying to. We're trying everything, but it's just at some point our hands are tied and it becomes quite complicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, and that's the thing with the law right, we can only do things up to to the line we can't go over. So, as much as we may want to just fix something, we have to fix it the right way or it doesn't work. The client yeah and these must be like heart wrenching. Can you talk about ways that pro bono has impacted your career overall, like your private practice when you're working for other things? How has? As you've grown? Or you as a lawyer, how has pro bono impacted you?
Speaker 7:The right way to answer this question is kind of to explain that it's as a result of the kind of work I do in pro bono.
Speaker 7:The humanitarian work is what got me into my career in the first place. I initially wanted to go to law school to work in international human rights and then that spiraled into other things and then while I was in law school, I was actually again. I had no intention of pursuing immigration, but I was working with the safe harbor clinic and doing a lot of immigration work also essentially pro bono work and through that I ended up joining a firm my first law firm out of law school in DC, where they did a lot of humanitarian work in addition to corporate immigration, and this is a multi-practice law firm and as a result of that I was immersed into corporate immigration, started doing that. But I've always had humanitarian work in the back of my mind and I've always it was just always I went hand in hand with the other thing. You know, you just can't do one without the other, because to be fully versed in immigration, you you can't just not do it. And so it has, you know, as I earlier mentioned it, because the humanitarian work is so nuanced and so technical and there's very little template of language and briefs, every case of different. It kind of impacts your career and it doesn't make you a better attorney because you have to draft numerous different briefs explaining conditions, making different arguments, trying to find loopholes and trying to do everything in your power to provide the best representation. And that's something that I don't always come across in the corporate sense because it's just you're working with a different kind of case. So I think more along those lines there. It just allows you to see the full breadth of a case and humanize my work.
Speaker 7:No way like I do talk to foreign nationals on on a day-to-day for other reasons, but a lot of these. In certain ways I've seen intersections because at some point, when you're done with the asylum process, for instance, at some point you're ready to adjust status, you're ready for a green card, you're ready for the next step, and we do that through the employment lens as well. And there's a lot of intersection and it's especially really kind of heartwarming when you can go through the initial process that's humanitarian and then evolve into something that's more black and white, more you know adjusting. Then you finally can get people their green cards and it's just, it's an incredible experience actually. It's just it. It makes the whole practice of immigration, I think, kind of worthwhile. Without doing this humanitarian side of it, I think what I do in a day-to-day wouldn't be as spelling. It's just. It provides like a full, encompassing kind of fear.
Speaker 1:You know, without it gives you like a holistic. It gives you a holistic immigration practice which, yeah, which one informs the other. I'm sure, like your technical skills on the corporate side help you on the humanitarian side and the humanitarian side helps you on the technical. So it's really they work hand in hand absolutely.
Speaker 7:They absolutely go hand in hand, which I think is very important. And I try to kind of expand and, you know, see who else is interested in, kind of have them try it out, see what their experience are. The kind of work and mindset and kind of brainstorming that comes with this kind of proponent work I think would be helpful just generally across any field.
Speaker 1:So whoever is interested, I always try to share and bring them in when I can all right, maybe you're gonna have to do a training for all of us then, so we can take this happy to do that.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I'm happy to talk for hours on this that's terrific.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much. I appreciate you being on the podcast and I hope you'll come back and do a full episode with us to talk about your work.
Speaker 7:Of course I'm happy to do so. Thanks for having me, kim.
Speaker 1:Great. Thanks so much, Liz. Hi Macy, Welcome to the podcast. Hello, Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's great to be able to talk to you. It's kind of funny you don't sit too far from me, but now we're on Zoom talking to each other about Pro Bono, which I'm excited about. Can you tell us a little bit about you, your name, your office and your role at the firm?
Speaker 9:Yes, my name is Macy Mizigman. I'm in the Syracuse office and I'm a litigation paralegal fellow.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, all right. So you mentioned that you're a paralegal fellow because you're in a two-year fellowship role. That's sort of aimed at something for you to do. Post-graduation from Lemoine College it's college still, right? Yes? When does it become Lemoine University? I don't know, I'm out of the loop now. That's soon. So currently, as of recording Lemoine College, you're a graduation from Lem until you go to law school, right? Yes, fantastic, all right. And then, as we say all the time, then you'll come back to us, but that's another story. Anyway, so can you talk a little bit about your role as a member of our staff team here in Pro Bono?
Speaker 9:Definitely, my role in Pro Bono. It's a rather unique experience because of how hands-on it is. I guess before I started I thought that Pro Bono was only something that attorneys would do, that I wouldn't get much experience with this until after I had gone to law school. But being able to help people in this unique type of way is a very rewarding experience. And my role not only allows me to be able to see kind of behind the scenes, before attorneys even meet with the Pro Bono client it also allows me to go to court and see things firsthand, like shadowing and stuff like that.
Speaker 9:On a weekly basis I work with NBI and I prepare potential conflicts for landlord-tenacourt, but more recently I've had the exciting job of working on a Pro Bono Prisoner's Rights case.
Speaker 1:Very cool. So NBI is our conflicts clearing group, called New Business Intake, and it's important and I don't know if listeners would know this, but it doesn't matter if it's a pro bono case or a paid case. We clear conflicts, we have rules that we have to follow and in order to help people in these pro bono matters, we have to go through this process to make sure we do it, and you're that sort of integral piece for us in the Syracuse office and getting that done. Well, thank you, yeah and so. And then on the prisoner's rights, we have a couple of those going on in the Syracuse office right now, where you sit, and are you able to do some research and fact-finding work for them?
Speaker 9:Exactly, and it's going to be heading to trial soon, so I'll be on that phase as well. So I'm really getting to see a whole bunch of different aspects of the case.
Speaker 1:That's right. We actually have three of them going right now, I think, so you may get more. That's good, very good, all right. So how has your work on these pro bono matters enhanced your experience at Bond and your professional skills overall?
Speaker 9:So, as I mentioned, the pro bono work has allowed me to interact with clients in a unique way, but also just interacting with them in general, because what I do is more so usually behind the scenes. I'm not with clients, but being able to go to court and things like that, I'm actually interacting with the client.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean the thing is that while only lawyers can represent the clients, staff members, paralegal support staff can help the lawyers in the process and then get to know the facts, get to know the client and really help the process of representation overall.
Speaker 9:Exactly, that's just it. I'm interacting with so many new attorneys that aren't in my department that I necessarily wouldn't be able to interact with if I didn't go through this experience.
Speaker 1:That's why you can decide what kind of practice you may want to have after law school. Exactly that's what we're here. We're trying to help you, macy. That's all we're doing. Well, we really do appreciate your help on that pro bono and making sure we get those conflicts cleared, because we definitely do all of that by the book and it's important to have that process be managed by someone who can take care of it, because it can be several different clearances for one day, and so it's a lot. It's thanks to you and the group in NBI for helping us get through that so we can do our pro bono work, because serving the communities and the people in the communities where we do our legal work is important. So thanks so much, macy.
Speaker 9:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBond at bskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
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