Legally Bond
Legally Bond
An Interview with Tess McLaughlin, Law Firm Office of General Counsel
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In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond's Deputy General Counsel – Conflicts Tess McLaughlin. Tess discusses how she came to Bond's Office of General Counsel from complex commercial litigation and what it means to be a lawyer for a law firm.
Deputy General Counsel
Speaker 1Hello and welcome to Legally Bond , a podcast presented by the law firm Bond Shannigan King . I'm your host , kim Woll-Pryce . Today we're speaking with attorney Tess McLaughlin . She serves as the firm's deputy general counsel and sits in our Syracuse office . Tess , thanks for joining the podcast from all the way down the hall for me .
Speaker 3Thank you so much for having me , Kim .
Speaker 1I'm excited to get to talk to you on the podcast and I'm lucky that I actually get to talk to you every day here in the office . So your title is deputy general counsel for conflicts . So I guess if I were to summarize that then you are a lawyer for lawyers , Is that correct ?
Speaker 3Yes , I am a lawyer for Bond's lawyers .
Speaker 1This sounds like a very intense position , so I'm excited to learn a little bit more for our guests so that we can talk about it . It can't be an easy role and it sounds like that would be a very good topic today to talk about being a lawyer for lawyers . I'm sure that the listeners will enjoy learning about that . So we're gonna talk about that and the things that you do , from conflicts to other areas in which you serve the firm . Does that sound like a plan ? Yes , that sounds great . Okay , great , all right . Well , before we get into the inside counsel world , it's a tradition on the podcast to start with a conversation about our guest's backgrounds , so would you mind telling us a little bit about you ? You can talk about where you grew up Family , undergrad , law , school , whatever you feel comfortable talking about , of course .
Speaker 3So I grew up in a suburb of Syracuse , baldwin'sville , new York . I went to Loyola University , maryland , which is in Baltimore , for undergrad and I majored in political science . So after undergrad I returned to the Syracuse area . For a couple years I worked at a strategic digital marketing firm based in Syracuse . As senior advocacy strategist I worked for nonprofit and policy-based organizations to sort of bolster their messages in the digital sphere . I really liked that work . But having that exposure to a variety of local and national issues really reaffirmed my desire to want to attend law school and ultimately I attended Albany Law School in the Capital Region Very good , and I didn't know you were a poly-sum major .
Speaker 1See , every time I do the podcast , even if it's someone who I talked to frequently , I learned something new . This is particularly sticking out in my head this week because I was told by the college freshman that he has changed his major to polysum . So , oh , very good , right , joining us all and wanting to know why things happen , right ? I think that's why you've become a polysum major in the first place . So you didn't start your legal career here at Bond . You were at Albany Law School with all the great folks there graduated , and then , I think , you went to a firm that might be slightly bigger than Bond first .
Speaker 3Yes , I spent about five years as a commercial litigator focusing on complex commercial litigation , shareholder disputes , securities litigation , sec and DOJ investigations that type of work .
Speaker 1And people might not know this , but there are many , many lawyers in New York City , but there is always like six degrees to each other , and a lot of the lawyers you practiced with I had practiced with at my first firm before they made the move , and then we have an attorney in the Rochester office who had also been at the same firm that you were at before . So there's way more crossover than people think for lawyers in New York City , isn't there ?
Speaker 3Yes , it's a pretty small world actually .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's kind of crazy . It's kind of crazy . So you were at a firm and then you also clerked for a little while as well , right , Yep .
Speaker 3So I clerked for the New York Court of Appeals , which was a really great experience . Really got to hone my writing skills and have exposure to a lot of really important cases that are affecting New York State and New York State case law .
Speaker 1That's great . And then for the listeners who don't know , in New York State that's the highest court . Yeah , I think it's a little confusing right In law school . When you first start you're like it's supreme right , but that's our trial level and the Court of Appeals is our highest court . So a little extra time in Albany , or were you in New York City ?
Speaker 3So we were splitting time between New York City and Albany .
Speaker 1Because , for listeners , the court sits in Albany , the state's capital . Yes , all right . Well , we went to Albany , law worked in New York City , worked at the other firm , and now you're here with us . So when did you join FOND ?
Speaker 3I joined FOND in April 2023 , so about eight months ago .
Speaker 1Very good All right , so all right . You're doing conflicts in general counsel work . When you were in law school , did you ever think you'd be a deputy general counsel at a law firm ?
Speaker 3I did not . I took professional responsibility , which is very relevant to my now day-to-day life , but I candidly do not think I realized that law firms had this type of a role .
Speaker 1Right . It's one of those things that , like when you're in law school , you're thinking about MOOC court , learning how to write a brief , learning how to analyze cases . Sometimes we don't even really think about all the different things we can do with our law degrees .
Speaker 3Definitely . So it was a pleasant surprise that I am now in this role , which it's been really really wonderful .
Speaker 1That's great . So when you heard about the role , what interests did you in the work at first ?
Speaker 3So what I love about being an attorney is being able to dive into an issue . You're constantly learning new things , solving problems . What I loved about being a litigator is research , writing and counseling clients , so the Deputy General Counsel role at Bond incorporated all of those skills , provided an opportunity to gain additional operational experience and managing a team at a law firm , and also gaining additional transactional and business experience as well .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's pretty great . It's like it gives the client counseling side that sometimes as litigators we don't get in the same way . Definitely Our clients just want to be done with us in a litigation . It's not us personally , but they just would like the litigation to end Right . So this gives you that ability to develop those relationships . So I guess we should probably start with the basics , because we're talking a lot about the General Counsel's office in the Office of the General Counsel and a Deputy General Counsel . But what is the Office of General Counsel at a law firm responsible for ? What role does it serve ?
Speaker 3So I think the large overarching purpose is to manage risk , so nearly everything that we do is viewed through that lens .
Speaker 1That's kind of how I think of my role sometimes . Yes , I mean we also work very closely with our Chief Strategy Officer , jim Wolf Price which I'm very glad for , because it's great to work with you and with the General Counsel , who's Suzanne Gilbato , and you report to her , correct ? Yes ?
Speaker 3I am very fortunate to report to Suzanne .
Speaker 1I think we're all very fortunate to have Suzanne's wise counsel . It's so close to us here on the 15th floor . Agreed , all right . So you're the only other full-time member of the Office of General Counsel besides Suzanne , who is the General Counsel , but there are other attorneys at the firm who are part of the General Counsel team . Can you talk a little ?
Speaker 3bit about that . Yes , so we have three additional attorneys that sort of serve in specific functions . So Colin Leonard is a member in our Labor and Employment Group . He is Deputy General Counsel for Labor and Employment Issues . And then Jessica Copeland is a member in our Buffalo office and she is our Deputy GC for Data Privacy and Cybersecurity . And then , finally , John Elliman is a member in our Property Department and he is Deputy General Counsel for Real Estate . So we work with all three of them on various issues when those needs arise .
Speaker 1It's great to have that sort of individual experience and to have people who practice in those areas who can counsel the firm on those specific topics .
Speaker 3Yes , it's great to be able to collaborate with other members across offices and departments at bond .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's very good , all right . Well , I mentioned that your title included the word complex , so no flashbacks to professional responsibility class for anybody who might be a lawyer and listening . But I know you do much more than conflicts work , don't you ? Yes , yes , we do . Let's start with a complex , I guess . So for non-lawyers or hopefully just for non-lawyers , what is complex so ?
Lawyer's Duty and Conflicts of Interest
Speaker 3a lawyer's duty is to represent the best interest of their client , so this duty is reflected in each state's rules of professional conduct as well as case law and sometimes statutes . Lawyers must navigate the ethics rules to ensure that representation of one client does not conflict with this duty to another current client . So it essentially ensures that a lawyer's zealous representation of one client is not hindered by their representation of another client . So , as an example , let's say you represent client A regarding labor and employment matters and then client B also wants to hire the same firm to represent them in a commercial lease where the opposing party in that deal would be client A . So this would be a conflict of interest , even if different lawyers at the firm are handling the work and even though they're totally unrelated matters . So that's a very simplistic view of what we do on a day-to-day basis .
Speaker 1If we can't be adverse to our own client's interests , right , exactly so . We can't be on the other . If you're thinking of this only in that litigation mindset where it's one party versus another , we can't be on the other side of the V , right , yes , from our client . We have to make sure that we're always thinking of their interests . I think it sounds very interesting and I'm sure it gets very detailed . Is that part of what makes it interesting ?
Speaker 3Yes , definitely . I think no two conflicts issues are the same . The rules that may apply and the case law that might be applicable is different in each different situation , so that's something that I really love is being able to understand more about each member and attorneys practice area and what the issues are that they're encountering on a day-to-day basis .
Speaker 1I bet you didn't think early in your career that the word imputed would mean so much to what you do every day . No , I did not . I think because this is so big . Is that why someone at a law firm specifically has to be the point person for conflicts ?
Speaker 3Yes , bond has nearly 300 attorneys in 16 different offices and we have 30 different practice areas . Like any firm of our size , it's common that conflicts of interest arise on a pretty regular basis . The rules can be complicated if you're not entrenched in this world of professional responsibility on a day-to-day basis . So , my role as Conflict Counsel I can help provide an analysis with respect to best practices and essentially clear the way for the attorneys to continue to best serve their clients .
Speaker 1We think of it a lot about bringing cases in , but there's a lot of other areas or issues . It's everything from moving files to hiring people as well , isn't ?
Speaker 3it . Yes , so the conflicts of interest affects a lot of different areas . Any new client and new matter , which we sort of discussed earlier , must be assessed from a complex perspective . But we also work really closely with the recruiting department when the firm hires a lateral attorney , and we also work closely with the management committee with respect to assessing attorney board service from a complex perspective . It really is amazing how many different areas can be affected by the conflicts of interest rules and analysis .
Speaker 1I think it says something about the firm , but how seriously we take it . Client service is the priority , and part of client service is ensuring that we don't have these conflicts .
Speaker 3Yes , I think one of the things that we always try to emphasize in every single one of our conversations with our attorneys is that the client comes first . So what is the what is in the best interest of this particular client , and are we serving that client's interest by doing this additional work , and how are we going to ensure that our duties of loyalty and confidentiality are maintained ? Yeah , that's great .
Speaker 1I mean , it's so important we hear it . If you're a law student , you hear those words and you take that MPRE , the multi-state professional responsibility exam , New York State and many of the others . But it's , it's real life and it's really about how practice works .
Speaker 3Yes , there are more than one occasion that I've been working with Suzanne Gilbato , our general counsel , and we will think is this a question from the MPRE , Because this is so nuanced and detailed .
Speaker 1Yeah , I could totally see that . I could totally see that . Well , you also oversee a couple of staff departments at the firm , so you went from being a practicing attorney with litigation files to a practicing attorney in conflicts , with also staff reporting to you and departments that you oversee . So will you talk about what that idea of new business intake and records are and maybe just a little overview of what their role at the firm is yes .
Speaker 3So , as you mentioned , the Office of General Counsel now encompasses the new business intake department as well as the information governance or records department . Our new business intake department processes all new clients and matters that come into the firm . We have a manager of new business intake , kim Bean , and she works with a team of five analysts who assess each new matter for conflicts issues . And then we also work with the records department . They handle all digital and physical records at our firm . They handle onboarding of new client files , particularly when we have a new lateral attorney bringing new clients with them . They handle logistics of storage , retention policies , document management systems , those types of things .
Speaker 1So now you have not only the lawyering responsibilities , but administrative duties and oversight as well , right , yes , that's going to be fun . A new challenge .
Speaker 3Yes , it's great . I like to say that I wear multiple hats , so advisor , counselor , manager , referee , depending on the hour .
Speaker 1That's exactly Sometimes , counselor , when those of us stop in our office to ask questions or to just say , can you believe this ? And then ask , test for advice . So law firms are businesses and at a law firm , the Office of the General Counsel has a , as you mentioned , risk management . What are some of the other risk management responsibilities beyond conflicts ?
Speaker 3So we represent the firm in lawsuits . We take action on behalf of the firm as well . We draft and advise on firm wide policies . We advise attorneys on ethical issues , privilege issues , sometimes procedural issues , sort of advising on the multi-jurisdictional practice of law statutes that might apply , and then compliance with our clients , outside counsel . And you say that last , but that's a big one . Yes , it is . We're seeing them with increased frequency . Yes , all right .
Speaker 1It's a lot to keep an eye on and to keep charge of , and it seems to me that what you're saying is general counsel , both at bond right or other law firms and in other businesses . That's , in many ways , there's an advisory role . It's an advisory role , isn't it ? You're giving advice to keep the business running , definitely so , advising those running the business day to day . And what are some of the other areas you assist the GC with on a day to day basis ? So you mentioned the litigation piece . Is there anything you want to talk about a little more ?
Speaker 3Yeah , so we also review all of the contracts to which the firm is a party . I work with you and with Aubrey , our professional development coordinator , on continuing legal education , compliance and procedures and approvals . I work with marketing and individual attorneys on some of our request for proposals to make sure that when we're obtaining new business and new clients we're complying with those guidelines , that we're able to comply with those . And then I also work not just with the attorneys but with all of the other sort of firm constituents . So when we're opening new matters , we work with the support staff , with IT and with accounting to look for new ways to make sure that our systems are efficient and effective .
Speaker 1So are any two days the same in these eight months ? No , which is why I love the job . It is the sign of a true litigator test . When things are always like I'll learn . That is that new . Bring it , let's do it .
Speaker 3Yeah , the variety is something that makes the day go by really quickly . It's really enjoyable .
Speaker 1That's great . Do you have any advice for an attorney considering moving into a similar role from traditional practice ?
Speaker 3I would say try to obtain a wide breadth of experience from both a litigation and a business perspective . Some of the projects that I handled in my former role as a litigator that were more ministerial actually provided incredibly helpful insight into the day-to-day functioning of a law firm . So I would say dive into as many things as you can , because I think it'll better prepare you for going in-house anywhere .
Speaker 1Yeah , that makes sense . Don't say , oh , that's not part of this , because when you're in a litigation , those pieces are all part of making it work . It can open your eyes to other things and give you other experiences that might be helpful later in your career . Definitely Traffic , all right . Well , thank you , Tess , for joining the podcast today . It's always wonderful to speak with you . I'm so happy that you joined Fond . I think here we really do have to shout out Joanne Casey at Albany Law School , because she's the person who introduced us . So thank you , joanne . Thank you , joanne . It's always wonderful to talk with you , tess , and I hope you will come back and join us on the podcast soon , certainly . Thanks , kim . All right , thanks again .
Legally Bond
Speaker 1Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond . If you're listening and have any questions for me , want to hear from someone at the firm , or have a suggestion for a future topic , please email us at LegallyBondbskcom . Also , don't forget to rate , review and subscribe to Legally Bond for our podcast or download it . Until our next talk , be well .
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