In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond's Deputy General Counsel – Conflicts Tess McLaughlin. Tess discusses how she came to Bond's Office of General Counsel from complex commercial litigation and what it means to be a lawyer for a law firm.
In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond's Deputy General Counsel – Conflicts Tess McLaughlin. Tess discusses how she came to Bond's Office of General Counsel from complex commercial litigation and what it means to be a lawyer for a law firm.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond Shannigan King. I'm your host, kim Woll-Pryce. Today we're speaking with attorney Tess McLaughlin. She serves as the firm's deputy general counsel and sits in our Syracuse office. Tess, thanks for joining the podcast from all the way down the hall for me.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me, Kim.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to get to talk to you on the podcast and I'm lucky that I actually get to talk to you every day here in the office. So your title is deputy general counsel for conflicts. So I guess if I were to summarize that then you are a lawyer for lawyers, Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yes, I am a lawyer for Bond's lawyers.
Speaker 1:This sounds like a very intense position, so I'm excited to learn a little bit more for our guests so that we can talk about it. It can't be an easy role and it sounds like that would be a very good topic today to talk about being a lawyer for lawyers. I'm sure that the listeners will enjoy learning about that. So we're gonna talk about that and the things that you do, from conflicts to other areas in which you serve the firm. Does that sound like a plan? Yes, that sounds great. Okay, great, all right. Well, before we get into the inside counsel world, it's a tradition on the podcast to start with a conversation about our guest's backgrounds, so would you mind telling us a little bit about you? You can talk about where you grew up Family, undergrad, law, school, whatever you feel comfortable talking about, of course.
Speaker 3:So I grew up in a suburb of Syracuse, baldwin'sville, new York. I went to Loyola University, maryland, which is in Baltimore, for undergrad and I majored in political science. So after undergrad I returned to the Syracuse area. For a couple years I worked at a strategic digital marketing firm based in Syracuse. As senior advocacy strategist I worked for nonprofit and policy-based organizations to sort of bolster their messages in the digital sphere. I really liked that work. But having that exposure to a variety of local and national issues really reaffirmed my desire to want to attend law school and ultimately I attended Albany Law School in the Capital Region Very good, and I didn't know you were a poly-sum major.
Speaker 1:See, every time I do the podcast, even if it's someone who I talked to frequently, I learned something new. This is particularly sticking out in my head this week because I was told by the college freshman that he has changed his major to polysum. So, oh, very good, right, joining us all and wanting to know why things happen, right? I think that's why you've become a polysum major in the first place. So you didn't start your legal career here at Bond. You were at Albany Law School with all the great folks there graduated, and then, I think, you went to a firm that might be slightly bigger than Bond first.
Speaker 3:Yes, I spent about five years as a commercial litigator focusing on complex commercial litigation, shareholder disputes, securities litigation, sec and DOJ investigations that type of work.
Speaker 1:And people might not know this, but there are many, many lawyers in New York City, but there is always like six degrees to each other, and a lot of the lawyers you practiced with I had practiced with at my first firm before they made the move, and then we have an attorney in the Rochester office who had also been at the same firm that you were at before. So there's way more crossover than people think for lawyers in New York City, isn't there?
Speaker 3:Yes, it's a pretty small world actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy. So you were at a firm and then you also clerked for a little while as well, right, Yep.
Speaker 3:So I clerked for the New York Court of Appeals, which was a really great experience. Really got to hone my writing skills and have exposure to a lot of really important cases that are affecting New York State and New York State case law.
Speaker 1:That's great. And then for the listeners who don't know, in New York State that's the highest court. Yeah, I think it's a little confusing right In law school. When you first start you're like it's supreme right, but that's our trial level and the Court of Appeals is our highest court. So a little extra time in Albany, or were you in New York City?
Speaker 3:So we were splitting time between New York City and Albany.
Speaker 1:Because, for listeners, the court sits in Albany, the state's capital. Yes, all right. Well, we went to Albany, law worked in New York City, worked at the other firm, and now you're here with us. So when did you join FOND?
Speaker 3:I joined FOND in April 2023, so about eight months ago.
Speaker 1:Very good All right, so all right. You're doing conflicts in general counsel work. When you were in law school, did you ever think you'd be a deputy general counsel at a law firm?
Speaker 3:I did not. I took professional responsibility, which is very relevant to my now day-to-day life, but I candidly do not think I realized that law firms had this type of a role.
Speaker 1:Right. It's one of those things that, like when you're in law school, you're thinking about MOOC court, learning how to write a brief, learning how to analyze cases. Sometimes we don't even really think about all the different things we can do with our law degrees.
Speaker 3:Definitely. So it was a pleasant surprise that I am now in this role, which it's been really really wonderful.
Speaker 1:That's great. So when you heard about the role, what interests did you in the work at first?
Speaker 3:So what I love about being an attorney is being able to dive into an issue. You're constantly learning new things, solving problems. What I loved about being a litigator is research, writing and counseling clients, so the Deputy General Counsel role at Bond incorporated all of those skills, provided an opportunity to gain additional operational experience and managing a team at a law firm, and also gaining additional transactional and business experience as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty great. It's like it gives the client counseling side that sometimes as litigators we don't get in the same way. Definitely Our clients just want to be done with us in a litigation. It's not us personally, but they just would like the litigation to end Right. So this gives you that ability to develop those relationships. So I guess we should probably start with the basics, because we're talking a lot about the General Counsel's office in the Office of the General Counsel and a Deputy General Counsel. But what is the Office of General Counsel at a law firm responsible for? What role does it serve?
Speaker 3:So I think the large overarching purpose is to manage risk, so nearly everything that we do is viewed through that lens.
Speaker 1:That's kind of how I think of my role sometimes. Yes, I mean we also work very closely with our Chief Strategy Officer, jim Wolf Price which I'm very glad for, because it's great to work with you and with the General Counsel, who's Suzanne Gilbato, and you report to her, correct? Yes?
Speaker 3:I am very fortunate to report to Suzanne.
Speaker 1:I think we're all very fortunate to have Suzanne's wise counsel. It's so close to us here on the 15th floor. Agreed, all right. So you're the only other full-time member of the Office of General Counsel besides Suzanne, who is the General Counsel, but there are other attorneys at the firm who are part of the General Counsel team. Can you talk a little?
Speaker 3:bit about that. Yes, so we have three additional attorneys that sort of serve in specific functions. So Colin Leonard is a member in our Labor and Employment Group. He is Deputy General Counsel for Labor and Employment Issues. And then Jessica Copeland is a member in our Buffalo office and she is our Deputy GC for Data Privacy and Cybersecurity. And then, finally, John Elliman is a member in our Property Department and he is Deputy General Counsel for Real Estate. So we work with all three of them on various issues when those needs arise.
Speaker 1:It's great to have that sort of individual experience and to have people who practice in those areas who can counsel the firm on those specific topics.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's great to be able to collaborate with other members across offices and departments at bond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very good, all right. Well, I mentioned that your title included the word complex, so no flashbacks to professional responsibility class for anybody who might be a lawyer and listening. But I know you do much more than conflicts work, don't you? Yes, yes, we do. Let's start with a complex, I guess. So for non-lawyers or hopefully just for non-lawyers, what is complex so?
Speaker 3:a lawyer's duty is to represent the best interest of their client, so this duty is reflected in each state's rules of professional conduct as well as case law and sometimes statutes. Lawyers must navigate the ethics rules to ensure that representation of one client does not conflict with this duty to another current client. So it essentially ensures that a lawyer's zealous representation of one client is not hindered by their representation of another client. So, as an example, let's say you represent client A regarding labor and employment matters and then client B also wants to hire the same firm to represent them in a commercial lease where the opposing party in that deal would be client A. So this would be a conflict of interest, even if different lawyers at the firm are handling the work and even though they're totally unrelated matters. So that's a very simplistic view of what we do on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 1:If we can't be adverse to our own client's interests, right, exactly so. We can't be on the other. If you're thinking of this only in that litigation mindset where it's one party versus another, we can't be on the other side of the V, right, yes, from our client. We have to make sure that we're always thinking of their interests. I think it sounds very interesting and I'm sure it gets very detailed. Is that part of what makes it interesting?
Speaker 3:Yes, definitely. I think no two conflicts issues are the same. The rules that may apply and the case law that might be applicable is different in each different situation, so that's something that I really love is being able to understand more about each member and attorneys practice area and what the issues are that they're encountering on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 1:I bet you didn't think early in your career that the word imputed would mean so much to what you do every day. No, I did not. I think because this is so big. Is that why someone at a law firm specifically has to be the point person for conflicts?
Speaker 3:Yes, bond has nearly 300 attorneys in 16 different offices and we have 30 different practice areas. Like any firm of our size, it's common that conflicts of interest arise on a pretty regular basis. The rules can be complicated if you're not entrenched in this world of professional responsibility on a day-to-day basis. So, my role as Conflict Counsel I can help provide an analysis with respect to best practices and essentially clear the way for the attorneys to continue to best serve their clients.
Speaker 1:We think of it a lot about bringing cases in, but there's a lot of other areas or issues. It's everything from moving files to hiring people as well, isn't?
Speaker 3:it. Yes, so the conflicts of interest affects a lot of different areas. Any new client and new matter, which we sort of discussed earlier, must be assessed from a complex perspective. But we also work really closely with the recruiting department when the firm hires a lateral attorney, and we also work closely with the management committee with respect to assessing attorney board service from a complex perspective. It really is amazing how many different areas can be affected by the conflicts of interest rules and analysis.
Speaker 1:I think it says something about the firm, but how seriously we take it. Client service is the priority, and part of client service is ensuring that we don't have these conflicts.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think one of the things that we always try to emphasize in every single one of our conversations with our attorneys is that the client comes first. So what is the what is in the best interest of this particular client, and are we serving that client's interest by doing this additional work, and how are we going to ensure that our duties of loyalty and confidentiality are maintained? Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's so important we hear it. If you're a law student, you hear those words and you take that MPRE, the multi-state professional responsibility exam, New York State and many of the others. But it's, it's real life and it's really about how practice works.
Speaker 3:Yes, there are more than one occasion that I've been working with Suzanne Gilbato, our general counsel, and we will think is this a question from the MPRE, Because this is so nuanced and detailed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could totally see that. I could totally see that. Well, you also oversee a couple of staff departments at the firm, so you went from being a practicing attorney with litigation files to a practicing attorney in conflicts, with also staff reporting to you and departments that you oversee. So will you talk about what that idea of new business intake and records are and maybe just a little overview of what their role at the firm is yes.
Speaker 3:So, as you mentioned, the Office of General Counsel now encompasses the new business intake department as well as the information governance or records department. Our new business intake department processes all new clients and matters that come into the firm. We have a manager of new business intake, kim Bean, and she works with a team of five analysts who assess each new matter for conflicts issues. And then we also work with the records department. They handle all digital and physical records at our firm. They handle onboarding of new client files, particularly when we have a new lateral attorney bringing new clients with them. They handle logistics of storage, retention policies, document management systems, those types of things.
Speaker 1:So now you have not only the lawyering responsibilities, but administrative duties and oversight as well, right, yes, that's going to be fun. A new challenge.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's great. I like to say that I wear multiple hats, so advisor, counselor, manager, referee, depending on the hour.
Speaker 1:That's exactly Sometimes, counselor, when those of us stop in our office to ask questions or to just say, can you believe this? And then ask, test for advice. So law firms are businesses and at a law firm, the Office of the General Counsel has a, as you mentioned, risk management. What are some of the other risk management responsibilities beyond conflicts?
Speaker 3:So we represent the firm in lawsuits. We take action on behalf of the firm as well. We draft and advise on firm wide policies. We advise attorneys on ethical issues, privilege issues, sometimes procedural issues, sort of advising on the multi-jurisdictional practice of law statutes that might apply, and then compliance with our clients, outside counsel. And you say that last, but that's a big one. Yes, it is. We're seeing them with increased frequency. Yes, all right.
Speaker 1:It's a lot to keep an eye on and to keep charge of, and it seems to me that what you're saying is general counsel, both at bond right or other law firms and in other businesses. That's, in many ways, there's an advisory role. It's an advisory role, isn't it? You're giving advice to keep the business running, definitely so, advising those running the business day to day. And what are some of the other areas you assist the GC with on a day to day basis? So you mentioned the litigation piece. Is there anything you want to talk about a little more?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we also review all of the contracts to which the firm is a party. I work with you and with Aubrey, our professional development coordinator, on continuing legal education, compliance and procedures and approvals. I work with marketing and individual attorneys on some of our request for proposals to make sure that when we're obtaining new business and new clients we're complying with those guidelines, that we're able to comply with those. And then I also work not just with the attorneys but with all of the other sort of firm constituents. So when we're opening new matters, we work with the support staff, with IT and with accounting to look for new ways to make sure that our systems are efficient and effective.
Speaker 1:So are any two days the same in these eight months? No, which is why I love the job. It is the sign of a true litigator test. When things are always like I'll learn. That is that new. Bring it, let's do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the variety is something that makes the day go by really quickly. It's really enjoyable.
Speaker 1:That's great. Do you have any advice for an attorney considering moving into a similar role from traditional practice?
Speaker 3:I would say try to obtain a wide breadth of experience from both a litigation and a business perspective. Some of the projects that I handled in my former role as a litigator that were more ministerial actually provided incredibly helpful insight into the day-to-day functioning of a law firm. So I would say dive into as many things as you can, because I think it'll better prepare you for going in-house anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Don't say, oh, that's not part of this, because when you're in a litigation, those pieces are all part of making it work. It can open your eyes to other things and give you other experiences that might be helpful later in your career. Definitely Traffic, all right. Well, thank you, Tess, for joining the podcast today. It's always wonderful to speak with you. I'm so happy that you joined Fond. I think here we really do have to shout out Joanne Casey at Albany Law School, because she's the person who introduced us. So thank you, joanne. Thank you, joanne. It's always wonderful to talk with you, tess, and I hope you will come back and join us on the podcast soon, certainly. Thanks, kim. All right, thanks again. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm, or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBondbskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond for our podcast or download it. Until our next talk, be well.
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