In Legally Bond's first episode of 2024, Kim speaks with Bond environmental and energy attorney Kevin Bernstein. Kevin talks about his tenure as Chair of Bond's Management Committee, the nuances of energy law and what he is most looking forward to as he returns to his practice full-time.
In Legally Bond's first episode of 2024, Kim speaks with Bond environmental and energy attorney Kevin Bernstein. Kevin talks about his tenure as Chair of Bond's Management Committee, the nuances of energy law and what he is most looking forward to as he returns to his practice full-time.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond Shenken King. I'm your host, kim Wolf Price. Today we're speaking with Kevin Bernstein. Kevin is an environmental and energy attorney and a member in Bond's Syracuse office and for the past eight years Kevin has served as the firm's managing member, which you know PLLC firms may call a managing partner role. So he's chair of our management committee here and while Kevin is winding down his term as the managing member I guess actually he's not winding down, he's done, he's officially done. He's also very much increasing his environmental and energy law practice. So welcome back to the podcast, kevin. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thank you, kim, always happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we're glad to have you back on the podcast. I would say like that you're increasing your practice, but I'm not sure I know how you did two things full time for eight years.
Speaker 2:It seemed like that. Yeah, but I am, though. I am increasing and just focusing on billable work, so that's nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, you have served as the managing member of Bond for the past eight years, so would you explain what that role is within our law firm?
Speaker 2:Sure, so it's typically called, as you mentioned earlier, managing partner. That's typically the term that's used for the law firm, the entire law firm, so it encompasses a lot of different things. In our firm, I'm chair, or I was chair, of the management committee. A management committee is the committee that's responsible for basically making operational decisions of the firm and implementing policy that's adopted by the management committee. But it involves a lot of other different things. I mean I would on a regular basis, really daily, work with our chief operating officer, who would then oversee all the administrative departments at a law firm. It would involve discussions with potential lateral candidates, potential law firms that we might acquire, and we certainly did that over the eight years that I was managing partner. So it would involve a lot of different things on a daily basis and a lot of different strategic decisions and discussions about the future of the firm and where the firm is headed.
Speaker 1:And that was that came from two four year terms, because that's how the operating agreement creates the managing member role, correct?
Speaker 2:That's correct. So we have term limits as part of the firm's operating agreement for the members. So a term for a managing member managing partners four years and there's a two term limit. So my term started on January 1, 2016, and it ended on December 31, 2023.
Speaker 1:And I joined right at the beginning of your second four year term. I started four years ago.
Speaker 2:One of my best decisions, Kim.
Speaker 1:Thank you, kevin. That's very nice of you, and you got to deal with me on almost daily basis for these four years as well.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't put it like that, I wouldn't say dealing with you, work with you collaboratively to advance the important causes and decisions that we have made, I think, and advances that we have made in a lot of different areas, whether it's professional development or diversity, equity, inclusion we, under under your leadership, us working together, I think we've really done a lot to advance this firm in that regard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you, and I honestly I tell everyone, kevin, I never once drove the wrong way to work, so this was absolutely the place I was supposed to be, so thank you. So on December 31st, you handed this all over to Brian Butler.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And now you get to be an environmental and energy lawyer all the time, without the administrative roles that you've had, many of them, over the course of your career here.
Speaker 2:I have, yeah, so primarily on, I became a member in 1997. Even before that, when I was an associate, I was on the recruiting committee. I've served on the recruiting committee at least twice. I served on the associate committee, I was chair of the associate committee. I've been on the compensation committee for 11 years that's the record. And of course I was chair of the management committee for eight years. So I've done a lot. And you know, at bond we always feel that it's important for us to kind of give back to the firm and to contribute to the firm in a positive way, and so I'm one of many people who've done that over there's careers. So I'm proud to have done what I've done. But I think that it's important for others in the firm to contribute to the firm in that way and in administrative capacities and in a lot of different leadership roles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that engagement I think is a big part of what makes the firm the great place that it is is that people are engaged that way.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree. So in these eight years, though just to make sure that we could challenge you as much as possible, the business world and world like the entire world, has changed a lot. Are there lessons you learn from leading bond through a global pandemic?
Speaker 2:Well, unfortunately, it's one of the things that will distinguish my term as managing partner. I hope no one ever has to go through that again as a leader of the firm or, frankly, for the world out to go through that again. There's still challenges with regard to post-pandemic conditions and variants that we see from time to time arise, and now some hospitals, for example, are requiring masking again. So, in terms of lessons learned from a pandemic, it's so hard to identify particular lessons because we've never in our own lives lived through a pandemic before.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:So it's tough but certainly was filled with anxiety and tension and uncertainty about what the nature of the economy will be where our firm fit in.
Speaker 2:And I have to say that I believe that we were very helpful to our clients who were going through very trying times in terms of operating their businesses, in terms of dealing with supply shortages, in terms of their employees and whether or not their employees could actually do their job.
Speaker 2:So I think one of the lessons learned from a law firm perspective, going through that pandemic, was how integral we are really to working with our clients and making sure that our clients succeed and trying to address as best we could the daily issues that they had and continue to operate their businesses. And I do think also the other lesson you'll learn is one of continuing compassion for your own employees, and I think that's an important lesson that you have to kind of continue to think about as any leader of any kind of organization like ours, as you move forward, that there's uncertainty, anxiety among your employees about where things are going and how the firm is doing and what this all means to them as they try to put food on the table. So I think you have to continue to think about the compassion you have to have for your own people, frankly, and that's something that I kind of. That was a big lesson, continuing lesson, that you always have to keep in mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, during that time is when you actually created the firm's well-being committee. We were on a program and you sent me a message and you're like we need to look into this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was definitely both from within and outside the firm For example the bar association level efforts to try to stay attuned to the well-being of the people who work in your firm or generally in the profession, and things we can do to alleviate whatever additional pressures and tension there is as a result of outside forces. So under your leadership now, I think the well-being committee is doing an outstanding job as we continue to provide opportunities to recognize things that we could do to maintain a positive well-being and stay to mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was. I mean, it was a great move to make it, you know, a committee of the management committee for the firm and to show the folks at the firm employees, attorneys, administrators how important that is and how seriously management takes the issues of well-being. So are there any highlights or favorite memories you have over the past few years?
Speaker 2:Well, there are a lot of highlights. I'll put these more in the highlights as opposed to favorite memories. Category. Highlights are my first day on January 1st 2016 was the first day the JAKLE combination and the JAKLE law firm joined us in 2016 in the Buffalo office. So that was a monumental occasion and accomplishment of the firm, including from my predecessor, rich Hull, and so just having such a large kind of law firm acquisition was something that was frankly new to our firm, that we had really never done. So I think that's a highlight.
Speaker 2:And then you kind of fast forward to 2021 and the Putney law firm, a well-known labor deployment firm in New York City, joined us. That was in April 2021. And then we long had the strategic objectives objective to expand or the breadth of the services that we provide on Long Island and, of course, in June of 2022, the laser law firm joined us. So those are three of the larger accomplishments, but I think some of the other accomplishments deal more on a substantive level expansion of certain practice areas where we saw the need and the opportunity throughout the firm. Of course we enlarged our footprint for the firm as well, and even adding an office in the midst of the pandemic in Westchester County. So I think those are some of the highlights that I can identify, but there are so many more.
Speaker 2:Over eight years I've probably forgotten more than I can remember. But that's kind of a good thing, because you don't want to just accomplish something and then just lean on that accomplishment instead of continuing to work through other strategic objectives that you really want to accomplish. So you just kind of have to move forward, and that's, I think, what we did during my tenure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I've ever really seen you sit still, so I think moving forward would be part of that. Well, before we get into energy and environmental law, I can't believe it's been a year since you were last on the podcast, so this is your fourth visit, but I like to make sure people know who's talking. So do you want to give a little bit of background on you? Whatever you want to sort of remind people of where you grew up college, law school, family.
Speaker 2:I will be happy to do that and I'm happy to be here for a fourth time. First of all, I'd like to say that you and Kate put this program together extremely well and I've really been proud of the way it's grown and the number of downloads that we've had, and it really is a subject for discussion, not just among those within bond, but outside of bond as well. So that is one of my accomplishments. It's one of the highlights I should have mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1:Thanks.
Speaker 2:But going back to me, and I don't really like to talk a lot about myself, but I will tell you that I grew up in Brooklyn, new York, born and bred, went to high school in New York and then I went to college in upstate New York, that's out of Rochester, where I met my wife and she persuaded me, of course, to stay in upstate New York, even though I did take a detour by going to law school in Vermont. So I went to Vermont Law School and then we came back here in Syracuse. I joined bond in 1990, so in April I will be with the firm for 34 years. In terms of my family, I have two grown children. I have three grandchildren, one on the way make it four, and so we're proud of that.
Speaker 2:And my son is in law school. He's in a second year law school, as you know, so I never really thought that one of my children would actually go to law school. But my son, as a second career after he was a track and field division one coach decided to go to law school, and I'm kind of quite happy about that.
Speaker 1:I think that's fantastic. Yeah, that's great. I will say that I think your first grandchild was born right after you gave me an offer. I picked a start date, and so all of these, this is four years that you've had like, just over four years, right? All the great kids.
Speaker 2:That's correct. My first grandchild was born in October 2019.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's been a. Really you've had a very eventful last several years.
Speaker 2:I know Now I have a little bit more time perhaps to spend with my grandchildren, although I'll be quite busy with the environmental and energy work that I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean it seems like it. So you mentioned that you went to Vermont Law School that has a strong environmental law curriculum, so was it always your plan to practice environmental and energy law?
Speaker 2:You know it really wasn't. When I went to Vermont Law School and which is now known as Vermont Law and Graduate School, by the way, right, it transformed into a graduate school as well as a law school. It wasn't my intention really. That's not why I went to Vermont Law School. I thought they had a great curriculum. It was a very interesting setting in Vermont and New England that I really loved.
Speaker 2:But I didn't take many environmental courses when I was at Vermont Law School. I didn't really know what kind of law I wanted to practice, which is not unusual for law students. Law students go to law school all the time not knowing exactly what they want to do. It's one of the reasons why the rotation program that we have here at bond or New Associates is so useful, because it gives New Associates a chance over a six month period to figure out, okay, what do they want to do, where they want to practice. So I did not focus on environmental law or energy law at Vermont Law School.
Speaker 2:But when I first came to Syracuse it was before, actually, I joined bond I joined a firm where the focus was environmental law, as you know, and so I was trained in environmental law and came to love it and over the many years decades that I've been practicing, it's transformed into both a mixture of environmental and energy law and that's been very satisfying in terms of the kind of mix of kind of projects that I'm involved in, and it seems that many of the things that I do are really more project based, sometimes lasting several years, because of either the nature of how long it takes to get approval or sometimes there might be some opposition for some projects. But that's the kind of work that I love to do and that's the work that's keeping me very busy these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure when you said, as I know, it's because when I came back to the area I joined that same firm. It took us a while to get to bond together, but I got here eventually, that's right, we didn't overlap. Exactly All right. So I think environmental law maybe listeners have a sense of, but we keep mentioning also energy law. So can you tell the listeners what do we mean when we say energy law?
Speaker 2:So energy law is a lot of different things. These days there's definitely particularly in New York there's definitely a focus on renewable energy, but it encompasses a lot of different things. It encompasses in order for you to turn the lights on in your home, of course, that electricity has to be coming from somewhere.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:There has to be some kind of power plant or renewable energy facility that's generating that power. So there's generation work. But then to get that power from where ever it's being generated to a transmission line that ultimately comes into your home, which would be more of a distribution line, there has to be wires that do that Right, and wires have to connect your home ultimately to where it's generated. So that's more the transmission and distribution aspect of energy law. There are a lot of different areas of energy law so I don't want to make it too simplistic. But in New York in particular there's a big push for renewable energy. Renewable energy can be wind, it can be solar, it can be hydro so renewable and so there are certain goals that the governor in New York has established under the Community Leadership and Community Protection Act.
Speaker 2:In New York the acronym that's used is CLCPA, and so most of the work that I do under the energy front really relates to the wires aspect of getting the power to where it needs to go.
Speaker 2:So most renewable energy projects occur in upstate New York, but yet the demand for power is really in downstate New York, so you really have to get it from point A to point B In order for that to happen, the utility companies have proposed numerous projects to the Public Service Commission in New York, at the behest of the governor and the Public Service Commission itself, to allow that transfer of power to occur from the northern parts of New York to New York City, for example, and so a lot of the work that I'm doing is working on what they call transmission siting projects under what's called Article 7 of the New York Public Service Law. So a lot of the work that I'm doing is in that area. But again, there's a lot of other kind of energy projects that are going on in New York. There's the generation part and there's a lot about offshore wind in the news these days.
Speaker 1:Right Long Island.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, long Island in particular, but also off in New Jersey and the Great Lakes. Okay, so most of that is those are wind projects, but so there's a lot going on, both at the federal level and the state level, of that offshore wind. And again it's the same issue you have wind turbines in the ocean and they somehow have to get to a substation that actually then gets the power to homes. So there's a lot going on in terms of energy law. That's primarily how I'm involved in it. But involved in all those projects are the environmental issues, and that's what makes what I do so interesting, because I focus on a lot of the transmission siding work, but yet all of that involves environmental issues like impacts to land, water, air not as much air, because that's more a generation kind of a project.
Speaker 2:But in terms of transmission siding, you're looking at the impact to wetlands, to streams, to threatened endangered species, and what's the best way to make sure that, while you're building this beneficial way to get renewable energy from upstate New York to downstate, how can you do it in the most environmentally sensitive way?
Speaker 1:Right, and it's funny because you mentioned water, land, air and that's always how, when I first started practice, that's how environmental lawyers sort of talked about themselves, like that they focus. But all of this comes into play in energy in some way, and energy law is an environmental like. I think they go so much more hand in hand than most people would think about because, as you talked about the siding, it's huge that you have to pay attention to all these natural resources and all the impacts.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting you say that because, for example, I've always been an active member of the New York State Water Association. In fact that was years ago. I was a section share of my section, which is known as the environmental, energy section law section of the New York State Bar Association. Even our practice group here at BAHD is the environmental and energy practice group. So that shows you that formal organizations like the BAHD and even our practice group recognize that the issues do go hand in hand and they have to be evaluated like that. For a number of different projects they have to go hand in hand and I see that all the time. It's not always the case. I mean, I certainly have purely environmental projects that have nothing to do with energy and I have some energy projects that don't get as much into the environmental, although that's rarely the case, but there is a significant overlap of it too. That has really increased over the years.
Speaker 1:Well, and you've mentioned siding, and that's the first thing I thought of when we started talking right, that always comes to mind and you and I know what we're talking about. But do you wanna talk a little bit about what you mean? It's like it's literally sometimes. Sometimes it's actually building something on a piece of land and it's other ways when we cite for energy projects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what I mean by transmission signing is, if anyone's ever driving along the through way or another highway, you typically see transmission structures or poles that cross the highway or run parallel with the highway and you know that's a transmission line. And so that transmission line eventually goes into a substation and I'm sure that many people have driven on local roads and seen substations and then ultimately the power that's being generated, wherever it's being generated, comes through those lines into a substation and then at the substation there's another line that basically connects all that power that needed to the many different homes that needed. So the sighting aspect of what I do deals with in many cases replacing some of the old transmission lines that you may see crossing a highway or running parallel to highway that maybe were built 80 years ago, that just simply need rebuilding and updating, or sometimes, because of the effort to bring renewable energy down to New York City, it's replacing them all together and putting in newer lines with newer equipment that you see that will be will allow that Transmission of renewable energy to where it's needed. So that's really what I talk about in terms of transmission signing. I mean there's other kind of signing, like citing you know whether it's a big box store, or citing a generation project, or signing a landfill or citing you know some other kind of facility that you know. So it's used in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 2:But and I do a lot of the work that I just described whether it's landfills or big box stores or distribution centers or other kind of facilities like that, I do all that kind of work and I have been doing it over the last eight years. I'll be doing more of it over the next several years as I get back into being full time billing and working attorney as opposed to worrying about, you know, managing the firm. I'll leave that up to Brian. Yeah, that's now. That's all up to Brian.
Speaker 1:Butler and you can go ahead and work fully for the clients all the time. You know, I think it's funny you mentioned turning on the light at home, but you know people don't realize all those things. All that citing every one of those poles, every one of those transmission stations along the way You're turning on a light in Brooklyn, that was a lot of citing and a lot of work to get that to that switch.
Speaker 2:And you know the whole purpose of more of the recent work that that we've been doing for clients, as dictated by public service commission orders to fulfill the policy goals of the governor in the state, is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. And that's going to happen from renewable energy wind farms, solar farms, hydroelectric plants. They do not use fossil fuels to generate electricity. They generate electricity by by the sun, by the wind, by the water, and none of those involve the emission of greenhouse gas emissions. So the whole point of increasing renewable energy and therefore getting getting into the transmission of that renewable energy is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, reduce the reliance on fossil fuels, and that, ultimately, is what is best for the environment and the air we breathe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and that's what the CLCPA it was, 2019, I think when that came in, that's really that's where those pretty aggressive goals, in a good way for New York, came into play.
Speaker 2:That's correct, so and you know there have been a lot of steps, even since the 2019 climate leadership and community protection act, or CLCPA.
Speaker 2:There's been other legislation that facilitates the siting of these transmission projects that I'm talking about, or even some other renewable energy projects, and so I think what the state has done is it's established its goals and then try to come up with other ways that can facilitate how its goals can be accomplished.
Speaker 2:And it's still going to be very tough, I think, for the state to accomplish its goals. To be honest, because you know there are economic and financial issues. For example, recently you'd see in newspapers and journal articles that offshore wind companies are having or difficulties in terms of pricing the renewable energy credits that they get for generating renewable energy. So there are issues there that have to be addressed, I think, and in order to continue with achieving the goal, and that's some of the things that again, those are energy law issues. Some of them I do get involved in, some of them I don't Like on the financing end. Those are for public finance lawyers at the firm, but you know there are concerns, I think, as to whether or not these goals can be accomplished, and I think that the state is trying to work through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some of it is that you know either existing businesses will create new products or a new model to enter this area, or new business will spring up. But that doesn't happen overnight. So to have the businesses to serve this goal, it's going to take time.
Speaker 2:It's true, I think that there's always an economic analysis that the state does, and even at the national level, a moving away from fossil fuel generation to non-fossil fuel generation and the direct and indirect economic impacts that could have. And so I know that. You know, even, for example, in Albany, I think that there's a lot of activity at the Port of Albany that has been generated as a result of the focus on renewable energy generation. But I think that we need to see more of that to happen, and I think it will happen, but it will take some time and we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we'll have to train people in those areas too. Right, people have to do the work. So that's another part, and you mentioned that we've seen, since 2019, continued significant legislative initiatives and new laws. Are there some things that you're seeing the way of changes that may be on their way or have happened recently in environmental or energy law?
Speaker 2:Well, the great thing about environmental and energy laws is there's always things happening on the legislative level. Okay, and so on the environmental side, for example, it's just issued its updated solid waste management plan. It also issued its annual greenhouse gas emissions report. So these are things that relate to environmental and energy. So every year, the independent system operator in New York that kind of controls the distribution of electricity around the state takes a look at the capacity and what's needed in terms of additional renewable energy. So there are always reports that have been issued and laws that are being proposed that will facilitate renewable energy generation.
Speaker 2:I think right now, for example, the state has proposed, or at least initially outlined, its cap and invest program, which takes a look at, for example, on the energy and greenhouse gas emissions front, plant industries generate greenhouse gas emissions and how they may need to pay for that in order to continue to actually emit greenhouse gas emissions, and to the extent they have to pay for it. Then who gets that money and where does that money get invested? For example, in disadvantaged communities across the state. So there's a lot going on at the state level and even at the federal level on a lot of these different issues. That has an ongoing impact to our practice in environmental and energy law.
Speaker 1:And definitely to almost all, if not all, of our clients, because whether you're a college or university and you want to do something, you're a small restaurant who has a grease trap that needs emptying. Environmental law sort of touches all of that, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It does. Our clients are very diverse. You know, whether it's higher education, whether it's waste management, whether it's energy companies, whether it's solar development companies, whether it's mining companies, whether it's manufacturing companies or industrial clients, it's very diverse. They all have different issues that they have to address to make sure that they stay in compliance. They all have different challenges in terms of all the new laws that they have to comply with. And that really, from my point of view, over the course of my almost 34 years here at bond, has made it the most interesting, because I have a diverse set of issues and clients and client industries that I represent and you always see new laws and new regulations come up on a yearly basis.
Speaker 2:The New York state legislature is starting its session this week.
Speaker 2:Tomorrow is the governor's state of the state address when she unveils her budget, and we'll see what the state will now look at in terms of potential new laws on the environmental and energy and climate and CLC PA front and see how that could affect our client. And it's something that you know we look at very closely. We're a member of the New York state business council and I know the business council looks at this very closely, along with members of a lot of different trade organizations that have their own unique kind of focus. But this is when it starts this time of year really tomorrow, with the governor say to the state address, and by the time you hear this, of course, the address will have been, you know, maybe two weeks old. But that's really where the work starts in the legislature. Once the governor gives her address and lays out the budget, that's when all the bills get proposed, that's when we start tracking how these could impact our clients, both on the environmental and energy front, and it's kind of exciting, an exciting time.
Speaker 2:So for some clients it's nerve wracking time because how it can affect the business, and that's really what we have to focus on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. With all of these changes in the constantly changing environmental and energy law, I bet you're excited to be back to practicing at 125%.
Speaker 2:I am. It's exciting. It's, you know, frankly, a relief now that I don't have to deal with any management responsibilities. The firm is going to be in great hands with Brian Butler at the helm, and I know that I can, you know, focus exclusively on client work and getting more client work, frankly, and the work I love. And you know, to be honest, I don't think that the clients that I work with ever noticed a difference or maybe something, even though that I was managing the firm at the same time, and that's the way I like to keep it. But at least now I won't have any of the management responsibilities that I could move forward and you're right, 125% capacity work on plan projects and to fulfill their goals as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's terrific. Well, thank you so much for coming back to the podcast and thank you, of course, for your eight years leading bond as our managing member through some truly unprecedented times. Thanks for bringing me on the team, and I mean that very sincerely, and I'm looking forward to more conversations about the changes to environmental and energy law and that we can actually go to lunch now.
Speaker 2:I look forward to a Kim and I do appreciate everything you do, including this podcast, so thank you very much for having me again.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much and thanks for producer Kate for all her work on this podcast. Thank you for tuning into this episode of legally bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm, have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at legally bond at BSKcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to legally bond forever. Podcasts are downloaded Until our next talk. Be well.
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