Legally Bond
Legally Bond
Bond in Paris, Part Two
In this special summer series of Legally Bond, Kim talks with Bond higher education and Title IX attorney and Olympic Gold Medalist Kristen Thorsness. Kris is traveling to the 2024 Paris Olympics as part of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) Ad Hoc Division. Part two of this series is a discussion of what Kris is expecting to see in Paris as an arbitrator.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond Shednick King. I'm your host, kim Wolfe-Price. Today we have the second installment of a special series, one that celebrates the nexus between the law and sport and, in particular, the Olympic Games. We're speaking with Kristen Thorsness, an of Council and Bonds Rochester office and an Olympic gold medalist. Chris will be in Paris for the summer games in a very unique role, so let's talk a little bit about Paris today, chris. As a reminder to everyone, chris is an attorney and practices in higher education in Title IX. That's not what you're going to be doing in Paris, is it Chris? It's not. No, it's not. There's no Title IX involved.
Speaker 2:There's not, but we've seen this huge growth of women's sports in the Olympic movement and I think I read somewhere that this is the first Olympics where there is going to actually be gender parity among the athletes, which is really cool. And yeah, I think in 84 at my first Olympics, I think it was like one third, two thirds or something. So the Olympic movement has really led the way in many regards for bringing visibility and opportunity to women's athletics.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Well, you told us a little bit last time, but you're going to be in Paris for what is referred to as CAS, the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Do you want to tell us a little bit again about what CAS is?
Speaker 2:CAS is a body of legal people involved with sport at a high level. It was originally founded by the International Olympic Committee but has been separate on its own since the mid-90s. It provides a relatively efficient and quick venue for resolution of sporting disputes. Cas sends about 12 to 15 arbitrators to each Olympic Games to be on site. We serve in three-member panels that will be assigned to us. For the first time this year, there's a small group that will be dedicated just to the doping cases.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, and that's not going to be me, but it'll also involve everything from eligibility disputes, selection disputes, field of play, violence, all kinds of misconduct allegations. A lot of different stuff comes up during the Olympic Games. You don't hear about 90% of it, but I read somewhere that in Rio they had 28 matters come before the CAS court. It's called the ad hoc court and so I could end up being pretty busy. The jurisdiction of the court opens 10 days before opening ceremonies and that's where you hear a lot of the selection and the eligibility disputes, so I could be busy for my first day there.
Speaker 1:That's wild. So your role is to serve as part of these three person panels Correct, and you're not in the doping, so you could be open to hearing the doping panels. So you could be open to hearing any of these other types of matters about eligibility or any of the other issues. And is some of it about like breaking the rules, just generally speaking, like behavior rules or anything that happens in like Olympic villages?
Speaker 2:Conduct stuff. You know, you might remember some American swimmers got in some trouble in Rio with a store at a store and then you know there was this dispute about they claimed that they'd been attacked, but the video cameras don't lie and you know things like that can come before CAS. But a lot of it's going to be, I think, sort of eligibility selection things, especially initially. Frankly it's going to be, I think, sort of eligibility selection things, especially initially. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if we see something about the Chinese swimmers who reportedly tested positive for a banned substance and have not been suspended, several of whom will be competing at the Olympics here.
Speaker 2:It's like that, you know, or eligibility of some of the Russian and Belarusian athletes who may have applied to become what are called individual neutral athletes. So they, but they have to. They have to meet a number of criteria and if they haven't been adjudged to have met those, then they haven't been allowed to compete as an INA. So they might bring something like that to us on appeal. But I'm really excited to see just what comes in front of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's the lawyer and you're definitely coming out right, but plus the athlete, because you know how hard these people have worked and trained to get where they are to be on this Olympic stage that we all revere and look up to, right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I've sat on other arbitral panels before and I've heard after the fact that the athletes really appreciate having somebody who they know really understands what they've gone through and their perspective and how difficult it is to train and compete at that level and how much of yourself you put into it. And so, yeah, I'm really glad that that is an additional help for the athletes, because I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
Speaker 1:Right, it's so, so difficult. So when you were asked to be on cast, and then how are you selected to be one of the 12 or 15 who will be at this ad hoc court in Paris, is that another part of the selection process or?
Speaker 2:I'm not exactly sure there are. I think I think I'm the only active CAS arbitrator with an Olympic medal Okay, and I'm assuming that that helped a lot.
Speaker 1:That one helped in many ways.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, and you know, and when I was first approached to join CAS and I was asked about whether I'd be interested in working on an ad hoc court at an Olympics, I practically climbed through the phone. I was so excited yes. And so I was approached, gee, over a year ago, and told that I was shortlisted for Paris, and I was very excited, as you might expect. And then last November that was confirmed that, yes, you're on the court to go to Paris, and so get your passport together and start making your packing list, which I did almost immediately.
Speaker 1:I can imagine it is very good packing list.
Speaker 2:Well, carefully refined over months.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, of course, because now you have these like official cast social duties that you also have to perform as part of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hear there's evening events and cocktail parties and all that sort of thing, in addition to sitting in conference rooms. Actually, one of the cool things that just came out is that usually, when you think of arbitrations, they're done in a conference room someplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at a hotel, at an airport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, cass is going to be operating in Paris at this beautiful, fabulous courthouse Wow, In the center of downtown Paris, this historic building, and so that'll give it a little extra gravitas too. On top of it all, it's very exciting work, and when I'm not working, I get to play.
Speaker 1:Right, so that means, like you, you're able to watch events at the Olympics. Do you have a special class?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Actually, I'm technically a part of the IOC delegation, as I understand it, and so my credential will have an all access to it. So if I'm not and I'll have access to the Olympic transportation system so say, I want to go out and watch rowing and I'm not working that day for CAS, I can just get on a bus and go out to the rowing venue and walk in.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, that's amazing, but, like, I think that's a benefit that's needed because you're basically on call, right? You mentioned in the last episode that one of the hearings at the Winter Games, the group was met at 8.30 at night through till 2.30 in the morning, so that could be happening as well. Right, and there's a tremendous seriousness to this. These are people's careers, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not just their livelihoods, it's their lives. Many of these people have been training since they were kids, for 10, 15 years, so it's the culmination of all of those years of effort, and so you do want to take it very seriously, and you're also trying to keep in mind how it impacts everyone around them, all of their competitors too.
Speaker 1:And the fairness overall.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely Right and you're setting some precedents and you know. So you have to kind of take the big view. But so yeah, and it could be very. You know, my understanding is we'll, we'll basically be on call and they told us bring your cell phone. So I I will have that with me at all times and I'll be available to be called back and assigned to a case.
Speaker 1:Well, that's so. I think then you deserve the ability to, on the off times, go see some of these wonderful Olympic events and to see these athletes. So, besides rowing, which of course will be the thing you most want to see at the Paris Olympics, are there any other events you're kind of excited to check out? Because when you were an athlete it would depend on when you were rowing whether you could see anything. So this is a little bit different for you.
Speaker 2:Rowing is the first week of the Olympics, so both games where I was, I was able to spend the second week just going to events because your athlete credential gets you in to all the events too, but yeah, oh, I'm desperately hoping to get to watch Simone Biles, who I just think is absolutely amazing, and on a variety of levels.
Speaker 2:I'd like to see the swimming. I'd like to watch men's and women's basketball wrestling. I used to train with the wrestlers back when I was in college and I I love wrestling and, oh gosh, just about anything I will go to, because this is something I found when I was an athlete at the Olympics that even in these sports, where I don't really understand the minutiae or the detail of the rules played at that level, you know, you can tell that these people are really really, really good at what they do, and so you can appreciate it. Just, you know, on that basis alone, it's kind of like watching ballet. You know it's this incredibly artistic, incredibly intense physical performance, and so I have a whole list every day, I have a calendar of all the things that I'm hoping to see if I'm not working, and so my plan is that if I'm not working, I'm going to be watching events.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean I would be wanting to see all the events, eating lots of baguettes and really just being in Paris. That's going to be fantastic, are you?
Speaker 2:also Good croissants, good coffee and good wine.
Speaker 1:That's in my future. I mean that's perfect. That's perfect. So will you also be attending the opening ceremonies your third time?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we also will be attending the opening and the closing ceremonies and we'll have, from what I understand, very nice seats, and then I fly home the day after closing ceremonies.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Well, chris, this I mean the fact that your law training and your Olympic training can come together in this way I think is really amazing. We're excited to hear about this journey from you. Thank you for sharing. We really hope we can speak to you from Paris, so let's stay tuned. Have a great trip. Safe, easy travels and I'm going to be looking in the stands at everything. I watch to see if I can see Chris, so thanks again.
Speaker 2:If you're watching and you're growing. Just look for the maniac jumping up and down.
Speaker 1:That'll be me All right, that'll be good, I'll be like all right. There she is. Well, we can't wait to hear more about your experience and I just want you to know I remain willing to fly over if you need me. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks so much, chris, and we'll talk to you soon. Okay, thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at legallybond at bskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
Speaker 3:Bond, schoeneck and King has prepared this communication to present only general information. This is not intended as legal advice, nor should you consider it as such. You should not act or decline to act based upon the contents. While we try to make sure that the information is complete and accurate, laws can change quickly. You should always formally engage a lawyer of your choosing before taking actions which have legal consequences. For information about our communication, firm practice areas and attorneys, visit our website bskcom. This is Attorney Advertising.