Legally Bond
Legally Bond
An Interview with Ryan Cross, Veterans Day
In this special Veterans Day episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond attorney Ryan Cross about his career as a U.S. Army Infantry Officer and his path to Bond.
Bond is grateful to all of our veterans and those who are still actively serving in the United States military. Thank you for your service as well as the sacrifices of your families and loved ones!
For more information on the Albany Law School 2024 Veterans Pro Bono Project being held on November 15 from 9 a.m. - 4 p.m., click here.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond, shenick and King. I'm your host, kim Wolf-Price. Today's episode has a special focus Veterans Day. We're grateful for all veterans and those who serve in the armed forces and, of course, we're particularly proud of the veterans and active military members associated with Bond, our colleagues, our family members and our neighbors. So in this episode I'm speaking with Ryan Cross. Ryan is an attorney in our Albany office. He practices in the firm's litigation practice and prior to law school Ryan served as an infantry officer in the US Army. Welcome to the podcast, ryan. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Hi Kim, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:It's great to have you here, so this is your first time on the podcast, but hopefully not last, and of course, this is our Veterans Day episode. So I thought, if it was okay with you, we could learn about your background generally and, of course, focus some of our time on your time in the military, and then we'll talk about your litigation practice and hopefully about how your military service informs and enhances your legal work. Does that work for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Sounds great, perfect, all right, thanks so much. Well, so, on Legally Bond, we do start our podcast episodes with having our listeners get to know our guests a bit. So if you don't mind, we can take a few minutes to let listeners know about your background where you grew up, went to law school, undergrad, family, whatever that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:Sure, no, that sounds great. So I grew up in Maine, actually in a really small ski town in western Maine. We are basically known for two things Sunday River Ski Resort and at one time I don't know if this is still true, but we had the world record for the largest snowman ever built. So these are the only two things that we're really known for. So I grew up there, went to high school and after high school I went to college at Norwich University in Northfield, vermont. It's one of the six senior military colleges in the country.
Speaker 2:I did ROTC at Norwich through the Army ROTC program, graduated in 2010 and commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Army as an infantry officer. From there, I went to Fort Benning, which is now Fort Moore, redesigned it, completed all of my basic infantry and follow-on training there and then went to my subsequent duty stations, one of which was at Fort Bliss, texas. I served as an infantry platoon leader infantry rifle platoon leader at Fort Bliss and deployed to Afghanistan from there. I did nine months in Afghanistan, ghazni province, supporting combat operations. From there, I went back to Fort Benning and to the maneuver captain's career course for some more officer training, and from there I went to my final duty station, which was at Camp Zama, just outside of Tokyo, japan, and finished my time as active duty there.
Speaker 1:All right. So, and then I know that Bond wasn't your first law job, but we'll get to that in a minute, if that's okay. I'd like to talk a little bit more about your military career. So you said you went to Norwich, and I admit I don't know much about Norwich or what you talked about, so will you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Norwich University is the oldest private military college in the country. It was founded in 1812, the birthplace of ROTC, actually, so it had the first ROTC program in the country. It's in Northfield, vermont, which is the geographic center of Vermont. It's a pretty small town, about 15 or 20 minutes away from the capital, montpelier.
Speaker 1:That's great, so okay. So you're in high school and you're deciding which college to go to. This is a pretty specific choice. What led you to this choice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so growing up I was always really interested in history, specifically military history. I was always the kid out back playing army. I really into, you know, gi Joe's and army movies, all that kind of stuff. So I kind of knew from an early age that I wanted to do. I wanted to pursue the military in some form. I was in middle school going. I just started eighth grade in 2001.
Speaker 2:And so obviously 9-11 happened and at that point it was kind of like I'm really interested in the military, I want to pursue the military, and now you know a little bit more flexibility in my college experience, but I still wanted that military feel to it. And I had the opportunity to go to a summer program at Norwich. I loved it and so from then on I was like this is where I want to go to school. And Norwich is great because it's not just military, there is a civilian component too. So there's civilian students, poor cadet students and all branches of ROTC are there as well. So you're studying and going to school with it's not just Army, it's Navy Air Force Marines. We even had some Coast Guard through the Navy ROTC program, so really diverse population of students. So it was a great experience, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's terrific, and when you gave us that brief overview of your Army career and I mentioned that you were in the infantry was that sort of your choice, Like which unit you wanted to be in?
Speaker 2:Yes. So my first branch choice was infantry. I went into Norwich knowing that I wanted to go into the Army and then specifically serve as an infantry officer. Wanted to go into the Army and then specifically serve as an infantry officer and the way it works in ROTC it's all merit-based and sort of needs of the Army. I can't speak for the other branches and other ROTC programs, but at least for the Army it is. They rank you based on your academic performance in school and then your performance at ROTC and then in between your junior and senior year in college.
Speaker 3:I don't know what it is called.
Speaker 2:Now I've been out for a little bit, but at the time you had to go to this training assessment for us for about a month. At the time it was at Fort Lewis in Washington State and you get assessed on basically your abilities to be an officer and you come out of that with a score and then they put all your scores together and then you're ranked with every other ROTC student in the country and based on how many billets they have to fill for each branch. You kind of give your wish list and wherever you fall on that list is how it's determined. So infantry was my first choice. Unfortunately, I did well enough that I was able to get my first choice and that's what I, what I always wanted to do going into the Army.
Speaker 1:That's terrific and I mean, I think some of us as civilians have a sense of what infantry is, but do you want to explain a little bit about what that unit is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the infantry is exactly what you think of when you think of the army. They are the ground fighting component. They are tasked with closing with and destroying the enemy, so to speak. I think that's the mission statement. I served in light infantry, meaning that I was, as opposed to mechanized or airborne, so I was in a light infantry unit. We walked everywhere with all of our stuff on our back.
Speaker 1:That's very, very heavy. Yeah, Like yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think. Typically, you know you're carrying anywhere from 60 to 80 pounds on your back, moving fairly long distances, so the infantry is exactly what you would think of. We did rifle marksmanship. We did small unit tactics. I, as a platoon leader, I had three rifle squads that I was responsible for and when I was deployed, you know we were doing combat operations, the whole thing.
Speaker 1:So so when you mentioned your service, you talked about a really broad array of places that you were stationed, you know, the southern US to Afghanistan, to Japan, the Pacific Northwest. What was that like, being in so many different places?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it can be tough. I think it's a lifestyle you kind of get used to. I mean everyone goes into the military with the understanding that they are probably going to move around. I really enjoyed it. I liked the change. You certainly never get bored.
Speaker 1:So you're not bored. You have a career that you started thinking of when you were at least in eighth grade and then you decided at some point, as you're in military service and during that career, to think about law school. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:So I was a political science major in undergrad. My advisor also advised the pre-law program, so there was a lot of overlap with that in undergrad and, honestly, I went into the military not with the intention to make that my my career forever. I really just wanted to go in do my junior officer time because I liked what the different roles and responsibilities that I would have as a second lieutenant, first lieutenant and junior captain. Army. You get more and more away from your troops and you're doing more office type work, more on the planning side, less of like the quote unquote army stuff. So I kind of knew early on that I was going to transition out at some point. So as I got you know a couple years in, I started thinking about okay, well, what am I interested in? What am I good at? What do I want to maybe do? I was always really good at reading and writing.
Speaker 2:Yeah not so good at math, so kind of, as I think a lot of my colleagues will also agree with. So about halfway through I started looking at. Initially I looked at well, maybe I want to do the JAG program there's, you know, there are programs through the military that will fund your legal education and you can stay and serve as a JAG officer. But I really wanted to try something different. I started looking at law school and what that would require and you can do so much with a legal education. So I knew that even if I didn't pursue traditional legal work, you know it would certainly benefit me. So that's kind of how I got there.
Speaker 1:All right. So you ended up, you attended and graduated from Albany Law School. Will you tell us how you got to Albany Law and then a little bit about your time there?
Speaker 2:So I looked at a bunch of different law schools, the one that seemed to be the best fit for me. You know, it's not too far from where I grew up Still, like upstate New York, is kind of the same environment as where I grew up and but also kind of, you know, albany is, you know, a big enough city, so there's lots of opportunity. It's close to New York City, so seemed like it would be a good fit, and so I was in Japan when I knew that I was going to be transitioning. Coincidentally and fortunately, there are two locations in Japan that offer the LSAT. One is in I believe it was in Okinawa, and then one is in Tokyo. So I was able to actually take the LSAT in Japan while I was there and then do my application. I did it about a year before I actually got out, so I had applied and was accepted and knew what I was doing before I got out, which was made the transition much easier for sure.
Speaker 1:Were you still in the reserves when you were in law school?
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't. I made a, you know, I made a clean break. I thought, you know, kind of kicked around the idea of staying in some capacity, but I felt like it would be too hard for me to have kind of one foot in, one foot out, so I just made the decision to clean break.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also the commitment and then the law school commitments sometimes don't align.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Were you involved in any particular activities when you were at Albany Law?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was really involved with the Veterans Law Pro Bono program. I volunteered my 1L year just as a volunteer, helping with their. Every year Around this time they have the Veterans Law Day, which is a free legal clinic that they offer to veterans in New York State to come and get free legal advice. So I volunteered Excellent program 2L my 2L year, you know. I reached out and said, hey, how can I get involved in this more, how can I be part of the program? So I don't remember what my title was 2L year, but I was on the staff. So I started helping plan the event and then, going into my 3L year, I was the co-director of the program.
Speaker 1:That's terrific Such a good way to give back and really help individuals who may not have access to legal services.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I'll just plug the program or the day real quick because I know it's coming out November 15th. I just checked, actually before this podcast November 15th, from nine to four at Albany Law School Veterans Law Day. So they are accepting walk-ins. So if you're a veteran or you know a veteran that you know you need a will written, you have a problem with your lease or a contract, you know, certainly go. Or if you just want to go, I know that they do a lunch and there's usually a panel that speaks on different veterans issues. So even if you just want to go and meet other veterans or talk with other veterans, it's a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:That's terrific and that's the 2024 date, but if someone's listening to this later on, they can always Google and find the new date.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yep. So what was the experience like going back to school? For you, after carrying 80 pounds on your back and being in the desert and traveling the world? What was the transition like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It was I wouldn't say difficult, but it was different. In some ways it was, I would say, going back to school. Being older gave me an advantage for sure. I had, certainly after working you know, just any job but especially being in the military, you have a different mindset coming back into school than maybe some of your younger peers that haven't had that opportunity to get out and work yet. So I definitely had a different level of focus and seriousness maybe than I would have if I had gone when I was younger.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I really would have done that Well, if I'm being perfectly honest, if I had gone straight out of undergrad. So I think it was a benefit going being a little bit older, but you know it was a little bit awkward at times. Being the older one you kind of feel, you know, maybe a little bit out of place with some of your peers. And funny story I actually had I think I was going into second semester of my 1L year and one of my classmates, after I got to know him a little bit, was like you know, honestly, I thought you were one of the professors for the first semester, so that kind of hurt.
Speaker 1:I took time off too, I understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right, but no, it was good and I think I needed that break in between undergrad and law school and I think that helped me do better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me and of course that was my experience as well, but I do think it. I also had the awkward where they couldn't believe how old I was and I really wasn't old so. But so we did say we'd delay this. So you finished law school and, but bond wasn't your first legal job. Can you talk a little bit about how you got to bond? So you finished law school, but Bond wasn't your first legal job.
Speaker 2:Can you talk a little bit about how you got to Bond. Yes, I started out at another firm right in Albany, a little bit smaller than Bond, doing the same thing, though primarily commercial litigation, with a focus on construction law and construction litigation. So I was a summer there. I did my summer internship between my summer, between 2L and 3L year. When did you?
Speaker 1:join Bond.
Speaker 2:I joined Bond March of 2023. So just last year, about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, terrific, all right. Well, we're glad you're here and doing commercial litigation for us. We'll have to come back and talk about that construction work. But I'd like to ask now how do you think your time in the military has sort of influenced your law practice?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I think you know there's a lot of similarities between being in the military and being in the legal practice, especially in litigation, which may not be readily apparent from the outside.
Speaker 2:But you know, which may not be readily apparent from the outside, but you know, certainly litigation can be a grind at times. You know there's obviously the adversarial nature of it can be taxing. You certainly need grit to handle some of the things that come up, some of the you know the losses, the disappointment, and I think that you know that's kind of the same in the military. It's the military, the military can be a grind. You're in the field for weeks, months at a time, you're deployed for months at a time, you're working long hours with little sleep. I think having that kind of grit and determination, and also the military, really teaches you attention to detail, which is something that you obviously need as a practicing attorney, and so I carry that with me into my practice as well, always focusing on the little things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And then you also have that respect for authority, which as litigators. Someone comes in in a robe and we immediately have black robe. We have certain response to judges, so I'm sure that's that's similar in some ways too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So what was your final right to the Army?
Speaker 2:So I ended my time on active duty as a captain.
Speaker 1:That's terrific. All right, well, thank you so much. Thanks, ryan, of course, on behalf of all of us at Bond. Thank you for your service and thank you for taking the time today to speak to us. Thanks to all the veterans of the firm, bond, family members that are serving or have served, and all the veterans of the US military. I hope you'll come back. What do you think, ryan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely no, this wasn't scary at all.
Speaker 1:All right, terrific. Thanks so much, brian. It's great always to talk to you, and thanks again. We look forward to having you back soon.
Speaker 2:All right Thanks.
Speaker 1:Kim, thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at LegallyBondedBSKcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
Speaker 3:Bond, schenick and King has prepared this communication to present only general information. This is not intended as legal advice, nor should you consider it as such. You should not act or decline to act based upon the contents. While we try to make sure that the information is complete and accurate, laws can change quickly. You should always formally engage a lawyer of your choosing before taking actions which have legal consequences. For information about our communication. For information about our communication, firm practice areas and attorneys, visit our website bskcom. This is attorney advertising.