Legally Bond
Legally Bond
An Interview with Gianelle Duby, Labor and Employment
In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with Bond labor and employment attorney Gianelle Duby. Gianelle discusses the importance of organization compliance with the New York State sexual harassment prevention and awareness training requirements.
For more information on Bond's online sexual and other workplace harassment prevention training programs, click here.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm Bond, Chetak and King. I'm your host, Kim Wolf-Price. In this episode we're speaking with Janelle Duby. Janelle is an associate in the Labor Employment Department, a practicing out of bonds Syracuse office. Hello, Janelle, Welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm so excited to finally be featured on the podcast.
Speaker 1:I know this is good. It's taken us too long, but now you're here, so that's great. So I said you are part of our Labor and Employment Law Department here at the firm, which, for those who don't know, is a very large department at our firm and I would say a big part of sort of what the firm is known for. I'm hoping today, if it's okay with you, we can discuss your practice, which I know involves client counseling, litigation, disciplinary things and much more, and I'd also like to talk a little bit about New York State's sexual harassment prevention training, which is a requirement for business in New York State and also a stricter version for New York City. So does that sound like a plan for today?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:All right, great. Well, just so you know, before we get into the lawyer side stuff on the podcast, we typically start with an introduction of our guests because we think our listeners and really producer Kate and I like to always learn a little bit more about our guests on the podcast. So if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about your background and you can talk about what you'd like either where you grew up, family law school, undergrad give us a little bit of background on Janelle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Kim and most of the people at Bond know this, but I am a Syracuse girl, born and raised through and through. I grew up right in the city of Syracuse, right up the street from Syracuse University campus. My whole family's been in Syracuse my whole life. My immediate family, my mom, dad and older brother we all have always lived in a 10-minute radius of each other, so we're together constantly. I'm fortunate enough that my extended family on both sides is predominantly still here, so I see my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins all the time and I just love it.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic, and so you were born and raised here. Where'd you go to school?
Speaker 2:So I, like I said Kim Syracuse girl through and through, I wasn't lying. So I went straight to Syracuse University for undergrad. I graduated from the SI Newhouse School of Communications. I was there from 2014 to 2018. And then I shipped straight off, you know, to the backside of campus and just went to the SU College of Law right after undergrad.
Speaker 1:You headed right over to the Dean Hall, closer to the Starbucks on campus, Exactly All right. So then I have to ask the question that I know the answer to everybody but I want them to know too how did you get to Bond?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it's no secret that if you grew up in the Syracuse or Central New York area or you live in this area, bond is a household name and one of the most reputable law firms. So it only made sense that when I decided to pursue law as a career, I knew I was going to go to law school and, of course, I knew I was going to stay in Syracuse. The best course of action for me was to join one of the most reputable firms. So when I started law school, I had my sights set on Bond. That was my goal, and every decision, every networking, every class was tailored specifically to making sure I achieved the goal of eventually ending up at Bond, and thank God I did.
Speaker 1:That's great, and so you summered with us, but you had a particularly interesting summer. I believe you were a summer law clerk in the summer of 2020, weren't you?
Speaker 2:in the summer of 2020, weren't you, Tanel? Yes, I am actually what we call here one of Bond's COVID kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, and we had. We still tried to have a summer class, didn't we?
Speaker 2:We did, we tried. There was three of us in the Syracuse office and it was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. It was a ghost town here. I describe it as slightly apocalyptic. Everybody was working from home, except for like me.
Speaker 2:And masks all the time wearing masks and as soon as someone comes in your office, you put your mask on and, as you know, our summer program is pretty regimented. We have our rotation. You know it's designed to have you touch everything and meet everybody, and instead this was just a chaotic free-for-all.
Speaker 1:It was definitely unique. It was my first summer with the firm too, so I think that we just had a unique experience. Yeah, it made us stronger. Yeah, I think so, absolutely Well, thanks so much for giving us that background. I like to have that, as I said, so that the guests can introduce themselves to our listeners. So, all right, let's talk a little bit about Bond's Labor and Employment Department. Will you tell us a little bit, give us a brief overview of what the department does?
Speaker 2:I don't know if brief's possible, but the Labor and Employment Department just does so much. I mean, you said it before, but it's kind of bonds, bread and butter, and we handle everything from client counseling on a variety of topics, including wage and hour issues, benefits, leaves, performance management, discrimination, harassment, all those types of claims. And then we also go above and beyond that. We do internal workplace investigations, litigation, administrative proceedings in front of administrative agencies like the Division of Human Rights or the Workers' Comp Board. We draft and review employee handbooks and policies, which is something I frequently do Keep a close eye on any developments in federal and state law and make sure that our clients are always up to date on what they need to do or how to navigate those issues. And then, aside from all that, we also handle traditional labor work, which includes union representation, collective bargaining and grievance and arbitration proceedings. And that's just probably scratching the surface.
Speaker 1:That's just what we can fit in a basic brochure, right, that's what we do. So you mentioned what we do, but bond handles only the side for employers in this work. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. We are exclusively management side labor and employment attorneys. Meaning simple terms we just represent the employer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's because we don't want to make law, that is, you know, we have our ethical obligations right, which we could have several episodes on that, but you have to be careful to not have positional conflicts as well, which is one of the issues why it's just easier if we keep the management side.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right. So it's a giant practice with a ton of different facets. What are the clients like? What types of industries or sectors do you work with in that department?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we have such an amazing variety of clients. We have everybody from large multi-state corporations to small, medium, large local businesses, entrepreneurs, nonprofit organizations, school districts, higher ed institutions, a ton of healthcare entities, and then public sector entities as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean, any organization that employs people can be one of our clients, and that's why you cover such a wide variety of industries and sectors. A big part of that, though, of the work you do, it's client counseling, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I can speak for the whole department, as well as myself, that client counseling is frequently a part of our day.
Speaker 1:And so I guess maybe we should tell people what does that mean in the practice of law? What is client counseling?
Speaker 2:You know I've never actually discussed that with anyone, but if you ask me, from my perspective, the best way I understand and can articulate client counseling is basically just providing advice to our clients on how to navigate a change or an issue. I'm constantly staying up to date on any developments and then it's my responsibility to inform our clients of those developments and how it will impact them, what they need to do, what are the requirements, and then clients will always come to us with a problem or an issue and we basically just need to be able. What are the requirements? And then clients will always come to us with a problem or an issue and we basically just need to be able to provide them with options for the best way to resolve that problem or issue. That's basically client counseling.
Speaker 1:And so that it makes sense to me, then that, even though you cover all of these different industries and sectors, you have to know what your client does. You have to know a little bit about it and what their goals are. Is that part of it as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You have to be able to kind of tailor a solution or, you know, make a game plan for your client, knowing exactly what they do on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 1:All right, Janelle, so I bet there's not one, just one answer to this. But what might a typical day look like?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, that's funny because I swear to God, every night I go to bed I have exactly an idea in my head of my to-do list and my plan for the next day, and then I get to work and it explodes. It gets blown up and I'm putting out fires left and right. But a typical day. There are certain things that in labor and employment, you're just constantly doing. There's always going to be something like on your plate. So I'm always, always, always drafting or reviewing a handbook or a policy. I'm usually always drafting a post-hearing arbitration brief or a position statement to the Division of Human Rights, and then I'm always researching the latest New York legal developments and then meeting with clients and counseling them on those developments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a lot of different things. It gives you a lot of variety when associates start in, especially in our Syracuse office of bond, and they're they're working over the summer, but also when you come back as a first year new law school graduate. We have graduate. We have what we call a rotation program, so you see a little bit of every department. What first drew you to the labor and employment practice?
Speaker 2:I mean, as we've clearly said throughout the podcast so far, the insane amount of variety in this department and I always have an opportunity to learn and do so many different things. And I'm in my fourth year as an associate and I'm still doing things for the first time, which I think is amazing, and I just love being able to expand my practice, step out of my comfort zone and try something new, and it helps me change and evolve.
Speaker 1:I think that the best lawyers are those who are curious and want to learn new things. So that shows why you know that you're developing so quickly at the firm and so engaged in things, because you have that capacity, all right. So did you know during law school that labor, employment, was what you might be interested in, god? No, you researched bonds. So who knows?
Speaker 2:Oh, kim, not even a little bit. In law school I took every class related to intellectual property. I thought I was going to be a copyright and trademark attorney. And then it wasn't even until I did my summer at Bond that I knew labor and employment was such a big practice, let alone Bond's big practice. So clearly I didn't research Bond well enough, but the more I learned about it during my summer and started doing the work, it like clicked in my brain. I felt confident in the things I learned about it during my summer and started doing the work. It like clicked in my brain. I felt confident in the things I was learning about and speaking about and I just enjoyed it and wanted to pursue it from there.
Speaker 1:That's great, do you feel like? In this you know at the firm and in this practice, you really get to know clients and their businesses.
Speaker 2:I'm fortunate enough to be at a firm that prioritizes our client relationships, and our attorneys never waste an opportunity to meet a client in person, whether it's just for a lunch to catch up or a chance to be in the same room for a hearing. That's by telephone or Zoom. We don't have to be in the same room, but our attorneys make it a priority to order lunch, get some coffee and make sure that we get to be with each other, and I'm lucky that I get to develop relationships on a professional level and a personal level and it makes it more enjoyable, it makes working more fun and it just builds trust and makes the relationship a little more human. I know sometimes people think lawyers are robots, but, spoiler alert, we're not, we're definitely not, definitely not.
Speaker 1:And I was wondering too. You talked about being from Syracuse and so seeing this work for businesses and industries locally across New York state and, of course, across the country as well. But it must give you a little bit of like personal, like pride or excitement to see all the developments and all the good work that's happening right here as well.
Speaker 2:Hometown pride. I used to like be one of the kids that was like, maybe someday I'll get out of Syracuse, and now I couldn't be more proud to, you know, keep developing my roots that are already, you know, established in this city, and it's so awesome to be from here, to have grown up here. Some of our clients are people that I've known for years, that were my friend's parents, or, you know, people I babysat for, which is just like so cool that now I get to like interact with them on a different level in my career.
Speaker 1:Well, I know, I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:It's a really special part about practicing at a firm like ours, in the regions where we practice, that you really get to be embedded and part of the business community in a whole different way, right, all right, so we talked about this a little in the intro, but one of the services in that long list of things that we do is help, of course, our clients comply with the different laws that they have to comply with, and in New York State it's sexual harassment prevention training. They have to comply on the New York State level and then, if they're in New York City, there's also a bit stricter New York City laws. So I know that Bond has a recorded product for businesses to comply with, a law that people can purchase and use. But I also know that you've conducted these in-person trainings, so you know this firsthand, being in rooms with clients. So will you talk a little bit about these laws? You know a high level overview about what they're meant to do, when they were implemented and what a business has to do to comply.
Speaker 2:So, like you said I do, I conduct this training year round, constantly. I'm at least doing an in-person sexual harassment awareness and prevention training on a weekly basis. Essentially, it's pretty simple. What these laws were intended to do these requirements for employers is simply just to strengthen employees' rights in the workplace and ensure that the work environment is free from any discrimination, harassment, retaliation or inappropriate conduct at all times. So that's just the simple point. This law was actually implemented back in October of 2018, these requirements for employers but they have changed tremendously. They've been expanded, the law has been amended, built upon, and employees' the law has been amended, built upon and employees' rights have further been strengthened by these changes ever since 2018, with the most recent changes even happening last year, in 2023.
Speaker 1:So we're constantly updating what you all say to these employers and their employees and the trainings that we do. So what are some of the things that businesses really just absolutely need to know? Is this an annual training that has to be given to everyone, and what size? Businesses are sort of impacted?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in New York State this applies to all employers, regardless of the size. In New York City it's 15 or more employees that the employers have to comply with these requirements. But generally important thing for employers when complying is that complying with these requirements is critical and something that the Department of Labor carefully monitors and something that the Department of Labor carefully monitors and they have no problem coming after employers that are deficient when it comes to satisfying these requirements. So I know it can be a little burdensome. It is so important that you conduct this training and you've got to have a policy that meets or exceeds the minimum requirements set by the state, and the state has its model policy.
Speaker 2:We've adopted our own kind of pseudo model policy for our clients and it's got a long laundry list of requirements. Things like that must be in it. You have to have certain examples of conduct that may rise to the level of being sexual harassment. You have to provide employees with a complaint form along with the policy, a procedure for reporting or investigating complaints, things like that. And then there's also a training requirement where every employer, on an annual basis, is required to provide employees with sexual harassment awareness and prevention training. And then one key, unique aspect of this training is it has to be interactive. So my training specifically has these kind of case studies and these examples that we go through and you know, new York State's looking for these employees to actually comprehend what they're learning and be able to recognize and be aware of harassment in the workplace. So these are the policy needs to be distributed on an annual basis. Training needs to happen on an annual basis to make sure that an employer of any size in New York State is complying at all times.
Speaker 1:And we do this. We're an employer. We all have to participate in this as well, and you mentioned you know that it can be a little burdensome to make sure you're doing this, but significantly more burdensome to have the Department of Labor come in to audit you or say you're not complying, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. It's not worth it in the long end. Just set up the training, give the policy. Come to us if you need some help and we'll make sure the DLN never comes knocking.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, not something businesses can ignore at all. So I've noticed that a lot of volunteers, the organizations they volunteer for, are having them take the training as well, even though they're not technically employees. Have you seen that as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one main part of my training is I always ask who can be a target or a perpetrator of harassment, and the answer is anybody. It's not just employees. Anybody who's coming in and out of the workplace can be either the person alleged to have engaged in harassment or the target of harassment. So it covers volunteers, interns, temporary workers or even independent contractors too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. That's why it's important that organizations really think like, even if it's by the letter of the law, they might not have to have everyone take it with the spirit and to protect themselves. It's good to have everyone who sort of you have in your sort of list of individuals who are part of your organization, that they take part of it, whether or not they're volunteers, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So interesting. There's so much that happens and, like you said, since 2018, it has changed nonstop, so you know what this means. Janelle, I'm going to have to come back and update us again. Yeah, I'll be back next year, don't worry. Well, all right. So I think that law students might not know what labor and employment law is, or that it's an option when they're in law school. So what are some of the skills that you think a labor lawyer needs for any of the students who might be listening?
Speaker 2:A labor lawyer needs the same skills. Any successful attorney needs your critical thinking, analytical and strong research skills are imperative. Successful attorney needs your critical thinking, analytical and strong research skills are imperative. But, interestingly enough, something I've learned is that creativity is an indispensable skill when it comes to practicing labor and employment Laws, especially in New York, are inherently unclear. Nothing's ever black and white, and creativity goes a long way when you're trying to counsel your clients and come up with a clear solution for your employer's problem, and you have to be able to think outside the box and come up with sometimes unconventional solutions. You can't be restricted in your thinking, and then communication skills are essential. Things move really quickly in labor and employment department and specifically you know just that area of the law, so you constantly have to stay up to date on changes and it's important that you just keep colleagues and clients up to date on everything that goes on.
Speaker 1:Is there anything you think that students in particular could do to get ready for this kind of practice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, looking back, I probably would have done this. I probably would have not taken IP classes and I would have focused on taking some introductory labor and employment law classes in law school. And then also, my best piece of advice is just to become familiar with the landscape of labor and employment. Take some time to just Google some latest developments. There's always some really interesting cases going on that are publicized in the media that have to do with really big, well-known brands or companies that you can relate to, and it's more common comes up if you're looking for it and it's more interesting than you would think. So take the time to you know, look at a labor and employment law report and see what the latest updates are.
Speaker 2:That's right, you can always check out the NLRB board right the general counsel decisions and just read away.
Speaker 1:Exactly no shortage of reading. No shortage of reading. Well, Joelle, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. I have to say it's truly a pleasure for me to watch your career develop. I'm so excited to see where it goes and I really do hope you'll come back to the podcast soon.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at legallybond at bskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
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