Legally Bond
Legally Bond
An Interview with Hannah Redmond, Summer Law Clerk Program
In this episode of Legally Bond, Kim speaks with labor and employment attorney Hannah Redmond. Hannah, also Bond’s Summer Coordinator, discusses what law students can expect during the Firm’s Summer Law Clerk Program and provides some helpful tips to keep in mind while participating in the OCI process.
Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the Loughborough Bond, Shedican King. I'm your host, Kim Wolfe-Price. In this episode we welcome back Hannah Redman, an associate in the Labor and Employment Department practicing out of Bond's Syracuse office this year. On top of her busy practice and the pro bono work she does, Hannah is also the summer coordinator for Bond's Summer Law Clerk Program. Hi, Hannah, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Hi, kim, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited that you're here to speak with us today. So this is a bit of a special edition of the podcast today, because we're going to be talking about law firm interviews and summer programs. And the reason for that, of course, is it's the time of year where law firms and other legal employers are welcoming their summer law clerks to their offices, and law schools and legal recruiting departments are getting ready for on-campus interview process, affectionately known as OCI, where many law students across the US focus their energies on getting jobs for yes, that's right next summer 2026. So all of us who have been through this know how stressful it can be. That's why I asked Hannah to join us today to talk about some of those issues and share some insights, maybe demystify this a little bit for everyone. So, Hannah, are you game to talk about law firm summer programs and OCI interviews? Absolutely All right, terrific. Thank you. Well, before we get into our topic, I know you've been on the podcast before, but will you please spend a few minutes reminding the listeners about your background?
Speaker 2:whatever you'd like to share, Sure, I was born and raised right here in Syracuse, new York, in a suburb of Syracuse, actually. I really haven't ventured too far since then. I got my undergraduate degree in English from Syracuse University. I took about a two-year break and then I headed back to Syracuse University, specifically the College of Law, where I got my law degree.
Speaker 1:Very good. And then, how did you get to Bond?
Speaker 2:I was able to get my summer internship after my second year of law school at Bond through the on-campus interview process that you just referenced, kim, and that started in the summer following my first year of law school. I applied through the College of Law's Career Services and was selected for an on-campus interview, succeeded in the interview I suppose, advanced to the next round, came back to the firm and did a much more robust interview with probably six to eight attorneys I think it was a little bit more lengthy, a little bit more drawn out than it is with our current process and was ultimately offered a summer position following my second year of law school.
Speaker 1:And then, after you finished a successful summer, you were offered to come back after graduation. That's right, and I've been here ever since. That's terrific, all right. It's fun for me because I remember the process from the law school side, because I was in the ex. You were a student in the externship program and you were weighing all of your options, so that's right. But now we get to be at the same place.
Speaker 1:Yes, we both landed in the best spot. I think so All right. Well, thanks for giving us that background. You know it's a tradition that we start episodes that way, and though you've been on before, I like to remind guests of who's speaking to them. So I did mention briefly that you were in Bond's Labor and Employment Department. Do you want to just talk for a couple minutes about your practice before we head into the talk about the summer program?
Speaker 2:Yes, so the Labor and Employment Department is pretty diverse in terms of practice areas and niches. It really runs the gamut in terms of what the attorneys in this department do. We represent management side only, so employers in all different industries and sectors private sector, public sector, manufacturing, et cetera, higher education. It really runs the gamut. And my practice is most focused on defense of employers in employment related litigation, whether it's discrimination, retaliation and harassment claims, wage and hour class actions, whistleblower, retaliation type claims. That's the primary focus of my practice. But the practice in the labor and employment department involves counseling. It involves compliance with labor laws. It really is very diverse.
Speaker 1:This satisfies the quandary you had do I join litigation or labor? And now you get to do litigation in labor.
Speaker 2:It was the perfect melding.
Speaker 1:I think it worked out really well, all right. So, while law students work in many settings of course courts, government agencies, legal services our conversation today, as we are law firm, is about summer law programs at law firms. So, hannah, what do we mean when we say things like summer law clerk and summer program?
Speaker 2:The summer law clerk phrase here at Bond really just means a summer associate or an intern. These are just students who join us for the weeks between semesters in the summer and they come and perform legal work and shadow attorneys and really try to get some good experience under their belt.
Speaker 1:And the summer program is what we put together for them.
Speaker 2:That's right. So it's everything from the assignments we try and give, the supports we give as they're exploring what their legal interests are and what they want their career to look like once they graduate. It's the connections with attorneys here, it's the social events and the fun stuff that we get to do with them throughout the summer and that's kind of we collectively refer to all of those different events and professional development opportunities as the summer program.
Speaker 1:That's great, and so you mentioned this. So many of the students joining us this summer interviewed after their first year of law school or starting their second year to join us after their second summer. So that's the majority of the people who are in our summer program. And then we also have a couple of individuals who finished their first year and come through the program that way as well and come through the program that way as well. So what typically happens in a summer program?
Speaker 2:You kind of just gave a little hint of it like what type of work? How long is it? Our summer law clerks spend the summer performing all sorts of different assignments across all of our various departments and practice groups and we strive to provide them as many opportunities as possible, as many connections with as many different practitioners. We try to get them a really rounded out array of assignments. We try to get them shadowing opportunities when they're watching depositions, going to court with other attorneys, going to closings, arbitrations. We try to get them some good hands-on experience so they can see what practice actually looks like beyond the four walls of the classroom.
Speaker 2:Depending on the office where summer law clerks are assigned, there's either a formal rotation or a less formal rotation where they're exposed to assignments and lawyers in all five of our main departments here at Bond. So you know we give them real legal work. They're doing the same work the junior associates are doing. There's no fake assignments. There's no closed book universe, hypothetical type questions where they're all answering the same legal questions. It's really legal work that we give to our clients. We obviously review it as practicing attorneys but they really get a good taste of what it is to be a lawyer in private practice.
Speaker 1:That's terrific, and it's a 10-week program and that's a lot to fit in. So what is your role as summer coordinator?
Speaker 2:As summer coordinator, I think one of my main roles is to be a sounding board and a friendly face to the summer law clerks, as they're a lot of them, working in their first professional position. For a lot of the summer clerks this is the first time they're working in an office and they're putting their skills to practice and they're doing work for partners. And it's not an assignment in a class right. This is actual legal work that's going to be hopefully in front of a client someday. So being kind of that sounding board, that more junior attorney who they?
Speaker 2:can come to and feels more approachable to ask the questions, that they might be too shy or too intimidated to ask a more senior level attorney or a partner, whether it's anything from assignments or how do I approach this question or how best to communicate something, or even as silly as what do I wear to XYZ event. I remember when I was a summer law clerk half of my questions were around wardrobe. I hope, right, that as a summer coordinator they view me as someone they can bring those kinds of questions to and then help alleviate any nervousness, any anxiety around starting this position. I know it can be intimidating entering a law firm and meeting a whole bunch of new people and doing things for the first time and help, try and facilitate them having fun and feeling comfortable enough to really shine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's terrific and you mentioned it and I know from my experience and I'm sure yours, like most summer law clerks it is daunting to walk into a law firm on that first day and, like you said, it could be the first professional job. They may not have lawyers in their families a variety of other reasons that it might not seem like the easiest environment to walk into it, and you mentioned nerves and some of the things they can do. But how should they approach the summer, Like, what are some tips you would give them?
Speaker 2:first, just come eager to learn, come eager to have new opportunities, come with an open mind. So, even if you think you know what it is that you want to practice, really give yourself the opportunity to experience all of the different practices and different kinds of work that we do here at Bond. Don't have a gut reaction to like transactional work if you really want to be a litigator. If nothing else, it'll give you an opportunity to network and meet other attorneys in the firm and make those personal relationships and connections that are just really important from both the collegiate standpoint and from down the line. You might need to call on someone else's experience and you'll now know who has that experience and who to pick up the phone and give a call to consult.
Speaker 2:I would say to help alleviate the nervousness, remember to be yourself. Nobody's expecting you to fit a certain mold. We selected you for this position because you are who you are and we're confident that you can succeed here. And we you know, we see the hard work and dedication that you put into getting where you are. So trust your training and come with an open mind and, of course, act professionally. Dress professionally, email, talk to your colleagues professionally those very basic things.
Speaker 1:Well, it never hurts to remind people of the basic things too. I think that's important, and at Bond we have a lot of resources in place as well to help the summer law clerks.
Speaker 2:Like we said, it's a summer program, so will you talk a little bit about the resources? Will spend the first few days in our Syracuse office and they'll go through a several-day orientation where they're meeting the heads of various administrative groups, human resources, the IT folks, other leaders, the managing partner, brian Butler, kim I think they'll have the pleasure of spending some time with you. They'll meet the members of the recruiting committee and all of the associate coordinators who are, like myself, in the coordinator position, trying to help them have a great summer here at Bond. And during that first few days they'll also get the opportunity to spend time with each other and meet each other. And I think that's one of the best parts of our summer program is the time that all of the law clerks spend together, becoming a team. You know they're going through the same stuff at the same time, so making those peer connections with people who are in the same stage as you is really, really helpful. If for nothing else, then you know you have that camaraderie and the people I started with are still, you know, some of my closest friends here at Bond, so I think that's really, really important.
Speaker 2:We also have Monday morning meetings. So every Monday they'll have a program built in. They'll meet with various practitioners within the firm. They'll get exposed to different departments and what work is performed in those departments. I think they'll talk to perhaps members of the recruiting committee and different summer coordinators throughout those Monday morning meetings as well. So we have a lot of great support. And then our, our administrative professionals are just wonderful in general. So they'll have the full support, just like any other attorney in the firm.
Speaker 1:That's great and that you mentioned them. But so you're the summer coordinator, so you're the lead, but there are other associates serving in more local coordinator roles at each of the offices, where we you're more senior and experienced. That's why you have this role, but not so scary that they would not want to come ask you questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. There's a whole team of us who are acting as coordinators, and we are all hoping to provide the best summer experience possible.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic, and so there are also social aspects. You kind of mentioned that, but can you talk a little bit about those and how the students or the summer law clerks should approach those?
Speaker 2:Sure. So it goes without saying too that while they are social events, they are social work events, so that concept of remaining professional at all times still very much applies. We do have a lot of opportunities for some really fun team building and just networking within the firm.
Speaker 2:I think in the first few days while all the clerks are in Syracuse, they'll have a volunteer opportunity where they'll go to the diaper bank here in Syracuse and spend a few hours volunteering. Then we have a welcome reception in the first two days. We also have a happy hour with just associates in the first two days. We also have a happy hour with just associates in the first few days. The highlight I would say of the social calendar for the summer law clerks and the summer program is the field trip. We keep the agenda itself pretty secret until it's closer to the actual event. So I'm not going to reveal anything here and now. But I can assure everyone that it will be as fun as it has been in years past. It's a whole day event.
Speaker 2:It's out of the office, it's the recruiting committee the associate coordinators and all the summer law clerks, and we spend the day outside of the office doing usually more than one very fun event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they get to see sort of because we bring them back to the home office area, usually in Syracuse how beautiful the area is, enjoy summer and, like you said, get a chance to be outside of the office with each other, because that bonding is important, but then, of course, with the coordinators and the recruiting committee as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then each office, I think, has their own summer outing as well. So here in Syracuse we go to a baseball game. Other offices do a similar event and it's office specific.
Speaker 3:So there's, a lot.
Speaker 2:And then there's the informal happy hours, lunches, let's go on a coffee run, let's grab ice cream, those kinds of things we do like all of those as well. I love a midday snack. I look forward to the summer program because then I have lots of different people to accompany me on those snack runs.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's every law firm in America. I think that's the case.
Speaker 2:We look forward to the summer program, I think, as much, if not even a little more, than our summer law clerks.
Speaker 1:I think so too. It's sort of like the official kickoff of summer. It's like people who are really excited to be here. All the most junior people kind of move up a little bit and they have someone who they're senior to. You know, there's generally a good excitement in the air and everyone's really just welcoming, I think, and ready for them to be here.
Speaker 2:Very, very welcoming yes.
Speaker 1:Do you think there's any other do's or don'ts you'd want to share for anybody who's a summer law clerk anywhere, or particularly here at Bond?
Speaker 2:I'd say just in general do's for any summer program, and certainly here at Bond. Say yes to new opportunities. Ask a lot of questions. If you have questions, no matter how silly you may think they are, ask them. If you have an idea about an assignment, or if you're researching something and you think maybe there's a new approach that the assigning attorney didn't think of, don't be afraid to raise it. Be vocal, be outspoken on your thoughts and your ideas. You're here for a reason.
Speaker 2:With respect to work product and the quality of your work, of course the sufficiency of the legal work itself is really really crucial, right, be quality of your work. Of course the sufficiency of the legal work itself is really really crucial. Right, be thorough in your work. Make sure that you understand the assignment that's given to you and if you don't, don't be afraid to say you know I don't have the background that you seem to have on this kind of work, but it sounds really interesting. Could you please maybe give me a little more context, because I'd love to help. And if you need you know a little bit more background, maybe ask an associate in the practice area to kind of fill in the gaps for you, if you don't want to have that conversation with the assigning partner or a more senior attorney. That's part of what coordinators or you know more peer level associates are there for.
Speaker 2:Reread your work before you hit send, please. I can't say it enough. Even if you think you've read it twice, maybe give it a third read through. I find often printing and sitting away from my computer with a pen in my hand is the best way to proofread, because no matter how competent your legal research is, how thoroughly vetted your writing product is, if it's riddled with typos and run on sentences and it's difficult to follow, it really just impacts the view of your, the quality of your work, and so I can't emphasize enough paying attention to those kind of core principles proofread, catch typos, make sure you're writing in a clear, concise, organized manner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And a big part of that, too, is and we say this to the fall folks when they come in to start their full-time careers with us that the value is. The biggest, easiest value you bring is that editing, proofreading, no typos, right, because that you can do without. That you have experience with. That's what got you here, so use that, use that core strength and that helps you shine as you move forward. All right, so it seems like planning, proofreading, curiosity, diligence, common sense, hard work, be yourself. Is that a summary in a nutshell?
Speaker 2:okay, in a nutshell, not too much to keep track of it all. No, no, no, it's not just be yourself, you know. Do the things you've done throughout law school.
Speaker 1:Yeah all will be well, all will be well, all will be well, all right. So, while that's all happening this summer, and how they got to, the summer law clerk program at our firm and firms in general, is the OCI program. So OCI are the on-campus interview programs. That's where a lot of summer law clerks or summer associates at bigger firms get their 2L jobs. So, from the recruiting committee's perspective, what is OCI for all of you?
Speaker 2:OCI is the main pipeline, I'd say, to a law firm job. It's run through the various law schools, career services office and you essentially submit an application or a resume through the career services office at your law school and then those resumes are sent to the hiring firm, they're reviewed, candidates are selected for an interview.
Speaker 2:The on-campus interview tends to be more of an initial screening type interview. Here at Bond, for example, that involves meeting with one or two members of the recruiting committee in an office at the law school and it's really just kind of a get-to-know-you meeting, right? What?
Speaker 3:are your interests?
Speaker 2:What kind of law do you think you're interested in practicing? What got you to law school? It's really just to have that initial conversation and see if there's a potential fit, and that's the primary way that we get our candidates and one of the major ways that law students find themselves careers in private practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at the bigger law firms for sure. And so from that initial, that sort of screening interview that OCI, the firm then selects the candidates to come back for that full round where you talked about. You met with a number of attorneys at the firm with a big emphasis on the recruiting committee, but then if there's a special practice area or skill set, say if someone is eligible to take the patent bar or something, they may meet with individuals from those types of practices as well. So let's say, a candidate's resume gets selected for the initial screening interview. You talked about it a little bit, but what should they expect in that initial screening that could be in person for OCI or nowadays, Zoom, from schools that are further away.
Speaker 2:The initial interview, like I said, is really just a get to know you. It's you know. Tell us about your background. What did you study in undergrad? What are your interests? What brought you to law school? You know, be prepared to talk about the classes you liked or the experiences in your personal life that led you to law school and gave you this passion for the law or this interest in the law. Have good questions about the firm and the attorneys you're meeting with, their areas of practice, or what the firm's specialty area is, or have done a little bit of research on the people you're meeting with and the practices at the firm, the firm's history. If, for example, you're interviewing with a boutique litigation firm and you talk all about how you really want to be a transactional attorney, you know it might feel you might have missed the mark there a little bit. So make sure you know who you're talking to in that interview.
Speaker 1:That's great, thank you. All right, so they have that initial screening and it goes really well. So what's next?
Speaker 2:Thank you, all right, so they have that initial screening and it goes really well. So what's next, after the initial screening interview? If it was a great interview and there's interest on the firm side, then they'll be selected for a callback interview. That is typically at the firm or sometimes now, you know, in the last few years those are sometimes completed virtually Each year. It seems that the interview process moves up and up and up in terms of timeline, so it's earlier each year.
Speaker 2:So sometimes we can't, you know, the candidates are not available to come into the office or whatnot. So it's a more robust interview. They'll typically meet with a few different lawyers and a few different practice areas, with emphasis on members of the recruiting committee, and it's a lot of the same types of questions to expect in that interview. No one's testing what your knowledge of constitutional law is. Nobody's asking you to recite case law from your contracts class or to quote the UCC. It's really more just what are your interests? Are your interests aligned with what we do here at the firm, and is it potentially a good fit based on the conversations during those second round interviews?
Speaker 1:And you mentioned this this is the process that you got to bond through, going through this process, which then led you to the summer program. It is and it is always weird I know it that I'm asking these questions sometimes when I know the answers already. I do understand, but the listeners so it's kind of weird, but it's for listeners, we do this all for you, all right. So there's another way for candidates to get to us at firms like Bond, because we don't have that on-campus interview or connection with every law, all 200 law schools in the country's career services offices. So we do have what we call the direct application through our website or contacting our legal recruiter here at Bond. So if a student applies that way, is there anything that you would recommend to her?
Speaker 2:Sure, I've had students who are interested in positions reach out to me. I know that other applicants have reached out to colleagues of mine as well. If there's a friend of a friend of a friend or some way to connect with somebody who works at Bond, who has a personal relationship, don't be shy, leverage that. Have your aunt's, friend's brother, send the email to the lawyer at Bond who is willing to meet with you for coffee to let you know what it is to work at Bond and to try and help get you in connection with either the legal recruiter or somebody who is in your field of interest. And it's those personal connections that often are really really crucial in the hiring process.
Speaker 2:So I'd say that's a great way to give yourself a little bit of an edge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so important, especially if you're not through an OCI program. So if you have an undergrad alum here, someone you know, or your law school isn't here, but there's someone here who went to your law school, even if they're in the Buffalo office and you're applying to the Albany office, reach out to that person. Don't think, oh well, they don't sit in that office. Reach out to the people who are those connections, because Bumlers will talk to each other and share that Definitely.
Speaker 2:And we, like I said, we all love the coffee, right. We all love the coffee run, so we'll meet you. We'll meet you to have a coffee and a snack.
Speaker 1:And actually leave to go get a coffee and a snack right Like we. Actually, it makes us go do it. Well, any additional advice for law students who are about to embark on the law firm application?
Speaker 2:or interview process, One thing that comes to mind. So it was after my first year and I reached out to career services and was shocked that the deadlines for OCI applications were within weeks of me contacting them. It just wasn't on my radar. I was the first person in my family to go to law school, so it was not. I just was not aware that my job for the following summer was something that I needed to be teeing up right then and there and that that job in all likelihood was going to lead to my post-grad job.
Speaker 2:So make sure you're on top of deadlines, make sure you understand how quickly the OCI process and legal hiring and recruiting happens. In terms of the stages of your law school career, it really, by the time you're a 2L, you often lined up your job for 2L summer and beyond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's wild and especially, you know it's a slim percentage of the overall law student population in class, but it is almost the entire thing for people who want to go to AMLA 200 law firms. So if that's your goal, you really have to be on those deadlines. And then deadlines for everything else, Like if you want to be a clerk, all those things there'll be different deadlines. Some of those will shift to three out, but you have to stay on top of them. It's really sad when a student misses it just by timing and then they can't get in. So important to stay on top of those. Be your own best advocate as you look for those jobs. All right, Hannah. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming back to the podcast today. Thanks for having me. It's always good to have you here and a pleasure to speak with you, no matter what. We are going to go on one of those coffee snack runs together soon Go for it.
Speaker 1:All right, and I hope you will come back to the podcast to update us on some new developments in labor and employment law soon. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at legallybond at bskcom. Also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Legally Bond wherever podcasts are downloaded. Until our next talk, be well.
Speaker 3:Bond, schenick and King has prepared this communication to present only general information. This is not intended as legal advice, nor should you consider it as such. You should not act or decline to act based upon the contents. While we try to make sure that the information is complete and accurate, laws can change quickly. You should always formally engage a lawyer of your choosing before taking actions which have legal consequences. For information about our communication, firm practice areas and attorneys, visit our website bskcom. This is attorney advertising.